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How Much of the Wiring Harness Can Be Deleted?

TennTechMan

CEG'er
Joined
Dec 18, 2008
Messages
198
Location
Maryville, TN
I'm not sure where this thread really belongs, so if any of you think I'll get a better response in another section, let me know.

I'm in the process of using a 98 SVT Contour driveline in the back of a 1990 Geo Metro for a 24hrs of Lemons racecar. If you're interested, https://www.facebook.com/KnoxvegasLowballers.

My question: How much of the wiring harness can be deleted and still allow full engine control (ie. no limp mode)? Or the better wording might be, what part of the harness or devices are likely for me to delete without reallizing it will keep the car from running (at all or only in limp mode)?

I've got all of the wiring from the donor car, but prefer to not carry over any more wiring than is really necessary. I expect that I need the sensor around the ignition switch and the key from the donor car. I'm going to retain the fuel safety shutoff (collision switch). I don't intend to keep the airbag circuit, airbag sensors, or airbag controls. Is that going to cause a problem beyond a warning light on the dash?

I plan to use the SVT Contour gages. I'm planning to keep all of the dash wiring as well.

Any other general thoughts?


Thanks in advance!
 
Oh, and to keep things a little on topic to this section, tuning of the full 3.0L install will be done using Binary Editor, a pass-thru cable, and a broken out strategy file from Adam at POPS Racing. As far as I know BE and self-tuning are not popular with the SVT Contours.
 
Nice project! I wanted to get some guys together to build a lemons car but I seem to be the only serious person around my age. :mad:

Its not that bad, this pcm is a good one to do this with. Pretty simple and straight forward.

Can you use Moates QuarterHorse to tune these now? I tried too do BE WAY back in the day but there just wasn't enough support. I put everything on standalones these days. Honestly though with just a SVT PCM I would not worry about tuning TOO much as the tune is pretty aggressive, for a 24 hour race I personally would not advance the ignition timing any more than it is on that tune.

You should remove the secondary butterflies on the Lower intake manifold as well.

Things you will need to retain to run correctly without issue (Imo):

Original Key
Ignition Switch w/ Immobilizer Transponder Ring Around Ignition Switch
Upstream o2 Sensor
Engine Coolant Temp Sensor
Mass air Flow Sensor
Crank Position Sensor
Cam Position Sensor
Throttle Position Sensor
Idle Air Controller

With all that it should run fine.

If you need any help on the dash cluster too I created my own schematic of it from scratch to make it all work with my setup.
 
I haven't seen it done yet, but it's my understanding that you can tune them with BE and a quarterhorse. I intend to skip the quarterhorse in this instance though to save us money on the Lemons budget. I'll be directly tuning with my laptop using a pass-thru cable connected to the OBD-II port. I might be the first to tune a SVT this way. I know that I was among the first few to tune a 2nd gen Lightning this way when I started that about a year ago.

The tuning shouldn't be too invasive. We're going with a full 3L from an Escape. I mostly plan to re-map the MAF sensor, turn off secondaries control, and just make small tweaks beyond that.


I intend to keep all of the engine control components for the engine. I'm mostly worried about some crazy scenario where the car rev limits at 4500rpm because the seat belt sensors are missing.
 
Don't worry about anything like that, that's why I mention this is a good ecu to do this with. Its not very invasive to the chassis's wiring harness , so don't worry about anything that's not connected to the engine harness. If you have everything connected in that list 99.9% chance the engine the engine will run perfect.

You will definitely be the first people ( I have seen) to binary edit the Contour SVT computer.

Post any issues/wire colors you need/ whatever in this post and Ill do my best to dig up my info.
 
Does the immobilizer transponder ring communicate directly with the ECM? Or is it connected to a security control computer/box that gives an OK to the ECM?
 
I'll be directly tuning with my laptop using a pass-thru cable connected to the OBD-II port. I might be the first to tune a SVT this way. I know that I was among the first few to tune a 2nd gen Lightning this way when I started that about a year ago.

This is how my old SVT Contour with a full 3L was tuned and how my Vortech Cougar was tuned as well. There are also a few other SVTC's running around that were tuned with BE and direct flashing... ;)

If you are tuning things off that you don't want/need you could remove the EGR and all wiring as well as the downstream o2's. I removed the downstream o2 on the Cougar with the intention of using that spot for a wideband o2. Plus with headers that's no point to run the downstream sensors anyways.

Are you going to be using the PCM/wiring from the Contour or the Escape?

EDIT: With regards to the transponder ring, I'm not 100% sure but I believe you can disable PATS. If you can, you'd eliminate the need for the transponder ring/wiring. Just a thought...
 
I wasn't aware people BE tuned these. You guys should make a thread for the strategy files and associated stuff and sticky it.

IIRC the early early SVT's had an external pats box (however I personally never had one). I think this would actually be the easiest to wire out because you could theoretically cut it completely out and jump the wires it cuts (if it works exactly like how I think). The later ones have the PATs system built into the PCM, so you just need the key and transponder ring and ecu as a complete set.

Like he said I'm pretty sure you can turn PATS off via SCT...Im sure it would be a lot more difficult through BE though.
 
Turning PATS off is very easy. Just a simple 1/0 parameter. The tricky part is that the ECM doesn't give flash access to the OBD-II port until PATS gives the OK. Once you get the OK, you can flash a tune with PATS turned off, and it will no longer be a problem. But if you throw out the transponder and key before turning it all off, you're mostly out of luck. There are guys that can fix it, but very few.

There is a checksum that is compared between ECM and PATS. There are no wires that can be simply shorted to allow PATS bypass.


Where are these people that have flash tuned with BE? 99Mystique, did you do the tuning yourself? If not, who tuned it. The guy that I buy strategy files from says the strategies aren't available, but he's willing to break it out for me once I pay for it. Having another source for the CSVT strat file would be awesome.


Thanks for all the input guys. Keep it coming.
 
There is a checksum that is compared between ECM and PATS. There are no wires that can be simply shorted to allow PATS bypass.

So it sounds like it works on data back to ecu?, rather than a physical relay disconnect. Definitely not what I imagined. Sounds like you know your stuff with this BE. I think overall it's going to go well for you.

So it sounds like they are extremely strict on the $500 non-safety budget? Also, looking at your build it looks like you have a full 3.0 swap, as in oval port (no secondaries) which you probably know, so Im guessing your just trying to turn them off because of that
 
As much as I've been around Lemons (just run one race so far, and have helped with a couple builds at this point), I've never actually read the rules. Being around my more Lemons-knowledged friends, the $500 non-safety limit is a hard and fast rule. But it's understood by everyone, organizers included, that it's easy to "fudge" a budget to $500.

The way it's policed is through the judging process of Lemons. When you arrive to judging, you have to show up with whatever you possess to prove that you've stayed under the $500 budget. In our case, we have a fully documented list of everything we've spent on the car. All items are separated into two columns, safety and everything else.

The subjective part of the judging is the assignment of "penalty laps". If you show up with a beat up Lotus Exige that your father-in-law sold you for $500, you're going to be assigned about 1,000,000 penalty laps. Doesn't matter if you really paid $500 or not. If it looks too fast, too good to be true, etc, you're getting penalty laps. Judges seem to reward the unique builds with good themes, both of which we think we have.
 
Where are these people that have flash tuned with BE? 99Mystique, did you do the tuning yourself? If not, who tuned it. The guy that I buy strategy files from says the strategies aren't available, but he's willing to break it out for me once I pay for it. Having another source for the CSVT strat file would be awesome.

Adam @ popsracing has done all my tuning. He's very knowledgable and several of my vehicles have been tuned by him. I've been the guinnea pig for a lot of the testing and some direct flashing as well. :)

I've done a little tuning but I've found that for the little I do it's worth it to let someone else do it. I could definitely do it myself but the guys that do it all the time can do it very quickly and with good results. It takes me a little while to find all the parameters I want to change and get them dialed in where I want them.
 
Getting back to your PATS question... since you said you have a 98 car the PATS as mentioned is separate from the ECM. The PATS ECM in these cars is located directly below the stereo behind the center console plastics. You will need it to get the car running.
 
Hmm. Location would have been helpful before we pulled every wire and control box out of the car. I'll look back at some disassembly pictures and see if that helps me figure out exactly which device that was.

I didn't see anything that looked like the PATS box that's in my Lightning (only other PATS system I've dealt with). Is the Contour PATS box the same control box that has keyless entry and lock controls in it? There's a box that was labeled something like keyless entry control. I assumed that was it if there was one.

I'll try to take some photos and get some part numbers later, and post those up for confirmation.
 
It's a blue plastic box with two connectors, Looks like this...

patsmodule.jpg
 
thats actually the airbag moduble.

No way! To think all these years I just assumed that was it. Thanks for pointing that out... learn something new every day.

So that said where is it? I'm guessing it's that green box on the left side of the cross bar then
 
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its not the green box either... all year cdws have that... dont ask me what that is because I dont know. Im not sure where they put it.. I know there is a seperate keyless entry system on e0s and e1s dont have that box...
 
The only other box I'm aware of that this could be is the black one that is behind the glove box, again on the cross brace. If I didn't have my dash installed back on the car I would go trace some wires to see what goes where.
 
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