3 alternators no charging

[amc49]

Uh, no.

'Under your theory, the voltage regulator would be able to "adjust" if voltage at the sense wire was at 12-14 volts.'

Not at all if the regulator is defective, I've seen so many variations away from that it's silly to even say it.

And 120 amps will be quite a bit higher than 14 volts too, need to get your meter checked there. Volts ALWAYS increase with amps. The alt should make around 75-100 volts with no load or regulation on it.

'The maximum amp charge to the battery should be no more than 4.5 amps at any time.'

ABSOLUTELY incorrect, I have seen countless systems go up to 20 amp or more right after a start and that was on 40 amp systems way back in the '70s, the modern fast charge alts can go much higher than that but they then choke back down quick (they BETTER) or then things begin to burn up. You don't burn up a battery at 10 amps, they commonly put out up to 250 at starting and up to however length of time somebody is dumb enough to crank the cars for. With complete system draw and all things working the battery can easily put out 10 amps at all times now and meaning that much must be going back in just to stay even, never mind any overhead. A rear glass defroster alone can pull up to 5 amp.

Take a 6G PCM controlled alt, it will easily charge 10 amp at idle and WAAAY higher than that if demand is put on it and why so many of them go bad, even brand new ones when dopey people insist on using the new alt to recharge the dead battery run down by the dead alt before. I voided so many warranties over that I cannot count when I was in parts, every piece of alternator literature on the planet now says to NEVER do that, the battery will not harm at all from it but the alt will burn out the regulator in minutes doing it. By Ford themselves it takes 8 HOURS to fully charge a dead otherwise good battery all the way back up with an alt and in the service manuals as NEVER DO IT. The alts are delicate enough even that a battery not bad but getting close commonly shells the alts out now, they again overheat at the reg long before the battery overheats and while trying to fill up a battery that never fills due to being old. On the Focus websites I have corrected hundreds of people that shelled out alt after alt and battery finally changed and the problem is gone, but only after you tell them. And that is on batteries that WILL pass a loadtest but on the low end of the spec.

Not saying the cluster was not the issue there, just that the 3G alt used there had no PCM control on it. I need no overall understanding of the complete system to pick up on that cluster alt light schematic and working method, I have seen it hundreds of times and up to 40 years ago.

 

[cclngthr]

Nope.

Off the car, on our bench tester, which LOADS up alternators up to 500 amps, on an adjustable rate that the user can adjust (not one from oreilly) the voltage regulator was able to adjust the rate of charge from the alternator from 30 amps, all the way up to 120 amps and back down to 30 amps. On the car, it was a constant 120 amps, but on the battery. It was at a constant 14 volts. We knew that the alternator, and voltage regulator were good upon installation of it on the car, but on the car, the voltage regulator was at full field 100% of the time. Within 15 minutes, it blew the alternator each time.

As I said, main charge wire was good, and so were the power wire to the alternator plus the sense wire (on the 7.5 amp fuse in the CJB) also was good. With it running, the sense circuit was at 14 volts, but the voltage regulator was still at full throttle. Off the cars electronics, it worked as designed.

The ground of the battery light is tied into the grounds to the rest of the cluster, which is tied into the PCM for tach and speed of vehicle. (On the 1/97-2/98 models, the tach used the crank signal directly, this changed with the E-1 98 models). With multiple diodes out and a poor ground through the cluster, the sense signal could not be sent accurately between the central junction box to the alternator and back.

The system also is capable of turning off the sense circuit if it sees voltage in excess of 16.4 volts. This would cut the alternator output to zero. This occurred last year when a different shop installed a alternator with a bad voltage regulator. That one would terminate power to the voltage regulator when it saw voltage above 16.5 volts. Under the old systems, if the alternator was overcharging, it would not turn off the power. This version does have that ability to do that.

Car does have a new battery. Changing the cluster was able to restore functionality to the charging system.

Newer batteries are based off an AGM battery. You never should put more than 5 amps on those at any time; you can easily cook those. Battery that is in the car is one of those which has a 1500 amp rating (these are designed for high loads and high end audio equipment)

 

[amc49]

You realize of course the statement that the volts stay the same while the amps go up is in violation of Ohm's law right? Volts = pressure, amps = flow. Cannot increase flow with no pressure increase and no resistance change. Unless of course the load is a pile that varies resistance there.

There is NO ground on the battery light, both sides of the light are DC+. That setup uses no ground. Look at the schematic again. It doesn't need one. The grounds of the rest of the cluster parts come nowhere near that circuit. And I find myself wondering why anyone is testing anything at all with multiple diodes out, which is easy as spit to find right off the bat. No regulator on the planet works right under those conditions and you cannot expect it to, they instantly tilt the field high trying to pick up lost charge and then nothing works right. Any errant A/C roaming the system can tear up other things like the PCM too.

As far as the AGM battery goes, it depends on what type AGM it is, some can charge at the same rate as a standard battery. I did it all day long at the parts store with no problems.

I think it's funny you guys need all that equipment when I seem to be able to fix alt after alt with only a voltmeter and some thinking................there's no rocket science there. You certainly dropped the trans control module thing in a CD4E pretty fast too, I've rebuilt that one and apparently can do it better than the major corporate rebuilder (Transtar) here in Dallas can as well. They told me a lot of this and that and said the trans would never work as it was the 'hardest trans to repair ever made'. It's been running since 2007..........but then I modded some things like I do with my alts. I pretty much leave nothing alone.

ATX fluid in an alt? BTDT too, a simple cleanup and back to working fine when they weren't. Years of use after it. But then I do things like that.

I'm done here.........I'll leave you alone.