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Daily driveable/track ready front arm concept developement

Pole120 said:
Reason 1 why solution A is more involved than you think:




Because of their shape, both shafts on both arms would have to be re-made from scratch without the dip and bulge to be able to make a urethane/delrin bushing solution.
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Josh have you considered installing a tube over the shaft and welding it in place? Then you could press a bearing onto it and place a couple of snap rings to prevent it from sliding out of the arm. Would be a lot of screwing around and definitely would require some machining though.

I'm thinking about the possibilities on this as I have to remove my knuckle to install my DSS hubs and wouldn't be much work to replace these while I'm at it.
 
Pole120 said:
They'll pop right out of the urethane. Sourcing the joints was never an issue, I can get them at any time.

You're talking about boxing the arms and installing the spherical bearings to tighten things up, then you want to encase them in urethane to soften them up again. Just install a pair of brand new arms and be done with it then. I hate that I always come off rude when addressing your questions, but rarely do any of the extra steps offer any real benefit over a simple, tried an true, solution. I daily drove the track car more than a few times with solid everything. My tooth fillings are all still in place and anyone who drove it can tell you that it's entirely street-able. My Cougar had solid tubular Stangkiller front LCAs. You got better road feel, and that's it. There was nothing annoying about any of it. Go all the way or don't bother in this instance is what I'm saying.
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yeah, I was afraid of them popping out of the urethane. I'm in the middle of moving, but when I get a few arms to play around with I'll post up some pics of how I'm planning to box them in and see what you think...
 
Seriously, with rod ends shoved in most places possible on my car, coilovers set to full stiff in the rear and half in the front (tuning out a little understeer, no other reason), and poly in most other places my Contour is still a great DD, too low for the snow, but otherwise very comfortable even for my 60 year old mother.
 
KAOS_3.0 said:
thats a really cool broken link!

what are we supposed to be seeing? does somebody make an arm for the mondy?
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Link worked for me. The link is to a company called Powerflex in the UK and it specifically goes to a page for the Mondeo where you can buy all sorts of suspension bushings. Here is the link to the company home page:

http://www.powerflex.co.uk/road-series/

Just drill down through the selections for Ford and you will find what Beans was referencing.
 
KAOS_3.0 said:
link still doesnt work. gives me a gateway timeout 404...
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The website did take a long time to download for me too. If you still have no luck viewing their website, try e-mailing them at sales@powerflex.co.uk

Maybe they have an electronic brochure/catalog they can send you. Make sure you ask for any information on products that cover the 1992 - 2000 Ford Mondeo to help narrow things down.
 
mrspindlelegs said:
The website did take a long time to download for me too. If you still have no luck viewing their website, try e-mailing them at sales@powerflex.co.uk

Maybe they have an electronic brochure/catalog they can send you. Make sure you ask for any information on products that cover the 1992 - 2000 Ford Mondeo to help narrow things down.
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sent an email, I'll see what comes back
 
CSVT#49 said:
Josh have you considered installing a tube over the shaft and welding it in place? Then you could press a bearing onto it and place a couple of snap rings to prevent it from sliding out of the arm. Would be a lot of screwing around and definitely would require some machining though.

I'm thinking about the possibilities on this as I have to remove my knuckle to install my DSS hubs and wouldn't be much work to replace these while I'm at it.
Click to expand...

That's almost the exact the route I was looking at taking, but ended up getting pulled off of the project to work on other things. It's something I hope to get back to soon though.
 
Most of the 2-bolt control arms I've worked with, 3 sets over the years, had a 47mm dia front bushing and a 60mm dia rear bushing. The bushings are pressed into the arms, you can buy just new bushings from Raybestos, Moog and others.

It looks like the Powerflex PFF19-901 (47mm) and PFF19-902 (60mm) will work in domestic A-arms. Some years back on a trip to Germany, I stuck my head under a Mondeo in a parking garage, think it was a Mk1, as it used more of an L-arm as opposed to our A-arm lower, but the bushings looked similar. In Europe, I think the Mk1 to Mk2 changeover was the middle of 1998, FWIW.

I spoke with a tech at Powerflex USA this morning, he confirmed that Europe part numbers PFF19-901 and PFF19-902 would work in the US control arms, but the parts are special order and would take 2 to 3 weeks. He said Powerflex has had inquiries about this in the past, but they don't list the part actively in their on-line catalog because it's a European part.

He said they had stock of one kit each in Black poly (Black is higher durometer than the Purple street material), so I ordered them and agreed to be a guinea pig to see if they fit our 2-bolt arms.

You can find and shopping-cart PFF19-901 and PFF19-902 by using the search function at the Powerflex USA site. They come up as a 92-00 Mondeo part.
http://powerflexusa.com/

$283.56 shipped for both sets, I can pretty much guarantee that nobody here can machine and kit something special for that cost. If these work, they may be the best option available.
 
interesting, but wont higher a-shore rated poly bushings just about eliminate wheel travel in a two bolt arm though?

I mean, obviously people have done this, but how does it effect handling?
 
KAOS_3.0 said:
interesting, but wont higher a-shore rated poly bushings just about eliminate wheel travel in a two bolt arm though?

I mean, obviously people have done this, but how does it effect handling?
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These aren't a rubber bushing in shear like the OEM part, they're a poly-lined, lubricated, spherical bearing, which is why they're somewhat costly. They should just about eliminate any friction in the lower arm's up/down movement, which is a great ride quality improver*, and should also nearly eliminate any bushing deflection that would cause changes in caster or camber, which is a handling improver.

*Some years ago I swapped out the rubber bushings in the SVO Mustang's front lower A-arms, which are bushed similarly to the Contour 4-bolt arms (rubber cylinder in axial shear), for Global West solid, lubricated Delrin/Aluminum bushings. Movement friction went to near zero and, somewhat to my surprise, ride harshness was greatly reduced. Anytime you can get friction out of a car suspension, it works better.

I've fussed about the Contour 2-bolt control arm bushings plenty of times here, but a donut or toroidal bushing in axial shear, as these are, is just bean-counter design garbage. Drum bushings in axial shear (4-bolt arms) are better, and usually last longer, but they're still full of friction.
 
gmorrell said:
Some years back on a trip to Germany, I stuck my head under a Mondeo in a parking garage, think it was a Mk1, as it used more of an L-arm as opposed to our A-arm lower, but the bushings looked similar. In Europe, I think the Mk1 to Mk2 changeover was the middle of 1998, FWIW.
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... can't have been a mk1 mondeo because they have the same as mk 2 mondeos. as far as 2 bolt LCA's go.

The changeover from Mk1 to MK2 was October 1996.

I'm intrigued by what car you were looking at. It is surprising how the exterior trim/lights/grilles can make the same car look so different between continents....... G.
 
gmorrell said:
These aren't a rubber bushing in shear like the OEM part, they're a poly-lined, lubricated, spherical bearing, which is why they're somewhat costly. They should just about eliminate any friction in the lower arm's up/down movement, which is a great ride quality improver*, and should also nearly eliminate any bushing deflection that would cause changes in caster or camber, which is a handling improver.

*Some years ago I swapped out the rubber bushings in the SVO Mustang's front lower A-arms, which are bushed similarly to the Contour 4-bolt arms (rubber cylinder in axial shear), for Global West solid, lubricated Delrin/Aluminum bushings. Movement friction went to near zero and, somewhat to my surprise, ride harshness was greatly reduced. Anytime you can get friction out of a car suspension, it works better.

I've fussed about the Contour 2-bolt control arm bushings plenty of times here, but a donut or toroidal bushing in axial shear, as these are, is just bean-counter design garbage. Drum bushings in axial shear (4-bolt arms) are better, and usually last longer, but they're still full of friction.
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oh, in that case I am amazed! very good!

please update with pictures and difficulty of installation!

could anybody who can actually get to the catalog embed the picture for these into this thread for me please?
 
KAOS_3.0 said:
could anybody who can actually get to the catalog embed the picture for these into this thread for me please?
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From the Powerflex USA site.

PFF19-902
19902web.jpg
419901sweb.jpg
 
oh those are beautiful!

how has this been around for so long and not on every single car on the forums? seems like this would be the next upgrade after poly roll resistors....


please tell me they don't plan to stop making them....
 
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