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3L Straight Swap into a 98 (return) style.

M

Matty K

Hard-core CEG'er
Joined
Apr 17, 2005
Messages
1,192
Location
Aliso Viejo, CA
Hey guys,

I've been reading up on 3L swaps, as there's a chance it's going to happen in the near future. One thing I'm confused about is this:

If I'm going to do an Escape complete swap (minus the bits that need to be brought over from the SVT), what needs to be done to the fuel rail? All the info I find seems to be on returnless systems. Are they still brazed together? If so, could I use the product NPG sells?

Thanks!
 
it depends on if you are going to use the stock lim or the one from the engine you are getting ....


if you use the stock lim and port patch the heads it will bolt together like stock, and so will the fuel lines.

if you are going to use the escape lim then you should get the NPG fuel line adaptor so you don't have to mess with brazing a fuel line ....
 
Cool, that's exactly what I was looking for.

If this ish goes down, I'll likely use the Escape LIM. The reason I was asking is everyone, even NPG, makes the distinction that that piece is for a swap into a returnless car. Good to hear it doesn't make a difference.
 
um, the fuel system adaptor that NPG makes allows one to use the escape/taurus etc returnless fuel rail in a car with a return fuel system where previously one would have to braze a return line onto a returnless fuel rail.


if your car is returnless then all you should have to do is plug in the fuel rail to the fuel line, if the fuel line is run the same way on the escape engine, I think the taurus comes in from the other side ....
 
You're right. I am, as they say, an idiot. I think I was confused because when SVT4STV did his swap (into a 2000), they had to get his rail brazed.
 
I think you will still need to do some brazing for a returnless car. I think the regulator on the escape rail is different than the SVT's. It may be vacuum driven as in the older SVT return rails. It will probably depend on the year escape motor as I'm sure some were vacuum and some where electronic. You may be able to get it to work some how but I'm not sure. The regulator on the returnless SVT's unbolts from the rail. I'm pretty sure the escape rail is different than that.

You also need to make a custom EGR tube. Your vacuum lines will all need to be rerouted (some shortened and some lengthened) and a few electrical connectors will need to be extended to reach the new sensor locations.
 
also isn't the escape UIM larger then the taurus one, meaning that it wouldn't fit under the hood anyway?
 
Blackcoog said:
I think you will still need to do some brazing for a returnless car. I think the regulator on the escape rail is different than the SVT's. It may be vacuum driven as in the older SVT return rails. It will probably depend on the year escape motor as I'm sure some were vacuum and some where electronic. You may be able to get it to work some how but I'm not sure. The regulator on the returnless SVT's unbolts from the rail. I'm pretty sure the escape rail is different than that.

You also need to make a custom EGR tube. Your vacuum lines will all need to be rerouted (some shortened and some lengthened) and a few electrical connectors will need to be extended to reach the new sensor locations.
Click to expand...

My car is return style, so I can just pick up the NPG adapter. You're right about the other stuff though; I've bookmarked an awesome thread Toodles wrote on the old forum that details all of the additional work, which includes (as you stated) connecting the EGR pipes and running that vacuum line. He suggested re-tapping the block for the oil pressure sender, but everyone else seems to think splicing in the existing one is a better idea. Thanks for the input all! We'll see what the prognosis is for this engine... I think I'm hearing early-stage knock (sort of like extra beats between the engine's normal 1-2 when it revs down; only happens when its hot, but still has me worried).
 
Maybe I'm confused... I thought this was an Escape engine?

MattyK3Liter_S.jpg


Ignore the, um, me in that pic...
 
Ah, so I see. For some reason, I thought the Escape was the easier of the two; clearly, my reading comprehension skills are sub-par. :crazy:
 
The Escape motor is only "easier" because the engine mount between the heads is present and the timing cover is correct. With a Taurus motor you would need to swap those parts on.

BUT people normally forget, as you noticed, that the Escape intake does not fit. BTW I have some Taurus intakes... :)
 
Appreciate it, but I've yet to source an engine. This is my "paranoid pre-planning stage"; though, as I already have a built tranny, if the tax return is big enough it could happen anyway...
 
good,i'll let you go first and see how you fare...than i'll make my desc. i'm also leaning towards the full 3L swap w/headers etc etc.
 
Yeah, we'll see... John, who did Steve's swap, said he preferred the full swap-out. Then again, we didn't have all the cool ish that's made now to make the manifolds work... I still would love to have my engine bay look like his; it looks more stock than a stock SVT engine! I would seriously not even put an intake on (other than discretely plumbing in my nitrous again); I wouldn't have to change anything when the car gets smogged. Plus, you can recoup some of the cost (possibly) by selling off the manifolds.
 
Well, engine got a clean bill of health, for now at least. While there is a slight noise in the top end when the engine's hot (kinda like a wobble... it's hard to hear), it's definately not knock... Everything else aside, if it was knock, it would be loudest when the engine's cold, which is the exact opposite of what I've got.

Even so, all was not in vain. I talked over a hypothetical swap with the mechanic, and we think the best plan of attack is a full swap with the SVT manifolds and NPG fuel rail and manifold adapters. This just gives me time to start saving up for a swap...
 
The NPG rail adapter thing is not the best way to convert the returnless rail to a return style rail...
You want the regulator after all the injectors so that the pressure across all the injectors are the same...You want a loop in the fuel system and in the loop you should have the injectors... If not you will get a leaner mixture in each cylinder thats further away from the regulator... And thats not a good thing in high demand conditions...
 
96BlackSE said:
The NPG rail adapter thing is not the best way to convert the returnless rail to a return style rail...
You want the regulator after all the injectors so that the pressure across all the injectors are the same...You want a loop in the fuel system and in the loop you should have the injectors... If not you will get a leaner mixture in each cylinder thats further away from the regulator... And thats not a good thing in high demand conditions...
Click to expand...

Ok think about what you just said you just completely made no sense. Now you are telling me you want the pressure drop to be the same across all cylinder right?
So how do you think the returnless system works on the contour or cougars it has a sensor on the front side that determines fuel pressure where some have them near the pumps like mazda 6. There is no physical way to have all injectors equal or less say it perfect. You will have 2-5% difference between the last and first injector regardless if it is return or returnless based on flow and friction (curves and diameter)

96blackse before you make comments on a open board do your research first and please talk with sense because dodge has a return style to and it is in the tank the regulator mechanical too where it has one line going to the fuel rail. If you have that small diameter rail then you shouldn't have it on the car in the first place where the fuel can't flow enough which i snotthe case here because the returnless is larger anyways. So if you are checking my spark plugs for hot spots showing lean conditions then you will have no idea even if it was ever possible. Sorry guys this is same person that opposes every thing we developed and never brought proof to the table and I think I know where he hangs out alot too..................does the LIM mod ring a bell ..........hmmm and the intake ...............
 
LOL you are a funny man... Read again maybe it'll make some sense...

Deny everything... I don't recall the last time I posted anything about your products so lets not make up crap...

I'll make a post with an illustration once I get a little bit of free time...

BTW this was not an attack as you made it out to be, you really lack some debating skills don't get too defensive...
 
Lets agree upon a couple things first:

-Fuel pressure regulator is there to keep the fuel at a constant pressure.

-Specifically, the pressure should be kept constant at the fuel rail where the injectors are located.

-An FPR has an inlet and an outlet port.

-The fuel before the inlet port of the FPR will be pressure regulated.

Agree?
 
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