twocontours
CEG'er
if the bulb is burned out there is no voltage applied to the regulator and the alternator will not turn on.
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Alternator not charging
- Thread starter cntrnewb
- Start date
projectSHO89
Hard-core CEG'er
I see you're still not following directions...
sigh
sigh
I followed all the rules set forth, and if I missed something I do apologize. I haven't messed with the contour for over 7 months since I had to re-install a turbocharger on two different vehicles this took a back seat and i came at it fresh. So if I offended you I'm sorry :shrug:
genesis14
CEG'er
And what about the voltage regulator? Did you replace that as well when you replaced the alternator. You may of burnt something out on the regulator with the first alternator. if you get 14.6 at the battery and the car still isn't keeping a charge, you either have a short somewhere or you have an internal short in your battery. (optimas are BAD for internal shorting)
Aussie Ford
Hard-core CEG'er
The regulator is part of the alt so generally it comes with one in place. I wonder if that fuse in the BJB is bad, or a wire is shorted, or perhaps he's just gotten into a bad batch of rebuilds..... are they Motorcraft remans? the battery could be an issue too.
AF
AF
genesis14
CEG'er
I dont think the battery is bad because he isn't getting the proper voltage readout at the terminals. If the alt was putting out he should be geting 13.75 -14.6 volts at the battery with the car running not 11 volts. However If the battery drops below 10 volts you may have to replace the battery. I talked to an ex-optima dealer and he said that 9 out of 10 optimas get returned to the warehouse due to internal shorting.
" Optimas are very robust when physically abused, but very weak when it comes to unregulated voltages. I recomended an odyssey battery for car stereo and REALLY heavy duty aplications because they don't internally short nearly as much. " The only down side is that the odyssey batterys are fricken heavy.
" Optimas are very robust when physically abused, but very weak when it comes to unregulated voltages. I recomended an odyssey battery for car stereo and REALLY heavy duty aplications because they don't internally short nearly as much. " The only down side is that the odyssey batterys are fricken heavy.
Aussie Ford
Hard-core CEG'er
It is just following the basics here one needs to do the checks and follow the steps. This system has some strange controls and one can not assume that a component is good just b/c it was replaced especially by a rebuilt unit. I put in two alts one NEW and one reman., the new one was bad even though it checked ok on the test. It wasn't up to the requirements for the car. The the pain was following the proceedures that finally got me to that fuse which is different for 99's of course.... LOL
But to start:
First the battery make sure it is fully charged.
Check the fuse in the BJB
Check the output of the ALT
if all these items are ok start on the trouble shooting proceedures.
But to start:
First the battery make sure it is fully charged.
Check the fuse in the BJB
Check the output of the ALT
if all these items are ok start on the trouble shooting proceedures.
genesis14
CEG'er
It is just following the basics here one needs to do the checks and follow the steps. This system has some strange controls and one can not assume that a component is good just b/c it was replaced especially by a rebuilt unit. I put in two alts one NEW and one reman., the new one was bad even though it checked ok on the test. It wasn't up to the requirements for the car. The the pain was following the proceedures that finally got me to that fuse which is different for 99's of course.... LOL
But to start:
First the battery make sure it is fully charged.
Check the fuse in the BJB
Check the output of the ALT
if all these items are ok start on the trouble shooting proceedures.
And I totally agree with you on this.
projectSHO89
Hard-core CEG'er
Just because you have the same voltage on both sides of a fuse it could still have bad contacts and not be able to transmit enough amps thru it. Take it off and clean it at least.
Mike
...only if there was no current flowing in the circuit at the time the measurements were taken.
ANY resistance in a circuit will cause a voltage drop that is proportional to the current (Ohm's Law) and/or resistance.
Ressistor resists current!
bad fuse makes the measured voltage (in bothsides of it) to increase not decrease! (up to what it is actually, lets say 14.8 here)
like, if the voltage is measured when the fuse is completely removed, it shows the highest voltage, and -0- current.
bad fuse makes the measured voltage (in bothsides of it) to increase not decrease! (up to what it is actually, lets say 14.8 here)
like, if the voltage is measured when the fuse is completely removed, it shows the highest voltage, and -0- current.
here is a helpfull site to test an alternator
http://assets.fluke.com/appnotes/automotive/beatbook.pdf
http://assets.fluke.com/appnotes/automotive/beatbook.pdf
...only if there was no current flowing in the circuit at the time the measurements were taken.
ANY resistance in a circuit will cause a voltage drop that is proportional to the current (Ohm's Law) and/or resistance.
Ressistor resists current!
bad fuse makes the measured voltage (in bothsides of it) to increase not decrease! (up to what it is actually, lets say 14.8 here)
like, if the voltage is measured when the fuse is completely removed, it shows the highest voltage, and -0- current.
He didn't say a bad fuse caused a voltage drop.
He said RESISTANCE in a circuit. And, to correct your statement:
a bad fuse would not make voltage "on bothsides of it" go up... that makes no sense.
A bad fuse is INFINITE resistance, and therefore there would be MAXIMUM voltage drop across that fuse. If you place your probe on the Positive terminal, and on one side of the "bad" fuse you would get 0 VDC (which means that the meter is reading a 0 volt DIFFERENCE from that side of the fuse and positive.. IE.. there is BATTERY voltage at that side (battery voltage at the battery and at that side of the fuse means a 0 volt difference)
The other side of the fuse would then read a MAXIMUM voltage (equal to Vcc/Battery voltage) Again.. the meter would be reading the DIFFERENCE in voltage, ie.. the full battery voltage would show on the meter's readout, but that is meaning that there is actually ZERO voltage at that point, because the meter is showing the DIFFERENCE.
Your statement was that a bad fuse would cause voltage to "go up" on "both sides".. this isn't physically possible.. if voltage increased (in reference) on BOTH sides of the "bad" fuse, then it wouldn't be a bad fuse.. there HAS to be a voltage drop across an open. period.
Last edited:
He didn't say a bad fuse caused a voltage drop.
He said RESISTANCE in a circuit. And, to correct your statement:
a bad fuse would not make voltage "on bothsides of it" go up... that makes no sense.
A bad fuse is INFINITE resistance, and therefore there would be MAXIMUM voltage drop across that fuse. If you place your probe on the Positive terminal, and on one side of the "bad" fuse you would get 0 VDC (which means that the meter is reading a 0 volt DIFFERENCE from that side of the fuse and positive.. IE.. there is BATTERY voltage at that side (battery voltage at the battery and at that side of the fuse means a 0 volt difference)
The other side of the fuse would then read a MAXIMUM voltage (equal to Vcc/Battery voltage) Again.. the meter would be reading the DIFFERENCE in voltage, ie.. the full battery voltage would show on the meter's readout, but that is meaning that there is actually ZERO voltage at that point, because the meter is showing the DIFFERENCE.
Your statement was that a bad fuse would cause voltage to "go up" on "both sides".. this isn't physically possible.. if voltage increased (in reference) on BOTH sides of the "bad" fuse, then it wouldn't be a bad fuse.. there HAS to be a voltage drop across an open. period.
Regarding to using a multimeter, we are both telling same thing. When I say voltage at both sides of a bad or removed fuse goes up to maximum existing voltage it is exactly what you say (the multimeter measures the maximum voltage when fuse is removed)
You know the voltage just tells the existing electrical potential of two points it does not show if there is any actual current or not.
like if the fuse is removed (lets say infinitive ressistor as you said!)and one multimeter probe is connected to one side and the other one onnected to other side we read the maximum voltage BUT THERE IS ABSOLUTLY NO CURRENT BETWEEN THEM because there is no connecction.
So increasing resistance in a circuit resists the current and causes the voltage reading at both ends of it to increase.
I hope I am clear now.
In a circuit
Resistor is like a dam on a river
Current is like its water flow
voltage is like pressure of water
If we put a dam on a river (removing the fuse) we cut the flow (current) which consequently causes the pressure of water behind the dam compare to downward the dam increaes (voltage), high voltage means high potenial for a current but does not necessarily mean there is. as soon as the dam is removed (put a new fuse) the water flows and the difference between the pressures become zero (as you said, the multimeter shows zero).
Resistor is like a dam on a river
Current is like its water flow
voltage is like pressure of water
If we put a dam on a river (removing the fuse) we cut the flow (current) which consequently causes the pressure of water behind the dam compare to downward the dam increaes (voltage), high voltage means high potenial for a current but does not necessarily mean there is. as soon as the dam is removed (put a new fuse) the water flows and the difference between the pressures become zero (as you said, the multimeter shows zero).
No... I think we're just barely missing here..
You said that if you place a probe on either side of a removed fuse (or infinite resistance) you will read "maximum" voltage. I do agree that the meter will show max voltage (whatever Vcc is) and I also agree that there will be no current flow through an open circuit, however I think the part we're missing each other on is this:
you say that you will see "maximum voltage" on BOTH sides of the fuse.. You aren't actually seeing the "same" voltage on both sides... one side will be maximum voltage potential with reference to ground.. the other side will be ZERO potential with reference to ground. Of course when you place the probes on either side you see max voltage.. you're seeing the DIFFERENCE between point A and point B. If there is a "difference" there, then they aren't BOTH max.. period!
Regardless, an open circuit does NOT make max voltage increase, or even "read" maximum on BOTH SIDES of the open... it isn't possible.
You said that if you place a probe on either side of a removed fuse (or infinite resistance) you will read "maximum" voltage. I do agree that the meter will show max voltage (whatever Vcc is) and I also agree that there will be no current flow through an open circuit, however I think the part we're missing each other on is this:
you say that you will see "maximum voltage" on BOTH sides of the fuse.. You aren't actually seeing the "same" voltage on both sides... one side will be maximum voltage potential with reference to ground.. the other side will be ZERO potential with reference to ground. Of course when you place the probes on either side you see max voltage.. you're seeing the DIFFERENCE between point A and point B. If there is a "difference" there, then they aren't BOTH max.. period!
Regardless, an open circuit does NOT make max voltage increase, or even "read" maximum on BOTH SIDES of the open... it isn't possible.
but I was talking about measuring between two ends of the fuse...
Which will allow the meter to show the voltage difference between both sides, which (if there is a difference) aren't the same and means that "both sides" can't have maximum voltage...
:sigh:
I think you do not know what is the meaning of voltage!
voltage of one point by itself is meaningless
the voltage of one point is ALWAYS measured compare to other point (the other end of the fuse, ground,...)
The thing is that you measure the voltage of the circuit (after the fuse-when the fuse is removed) compare to the ground, then say "THERE IS A DROP IN VOLTAGE WHEN THE FUSE IS REMOVED" Yes! it is zero.
but if you measure across the fuse it is not zero it is maximum.
I think I am clear enough!
voltage of one point by itself is meaningless
the voltage of one point is ALWAYS measured compare to other point (the other end of the fuse, ground,...)
The thing is that you measure the voltage of the circuit (after the fuse-when the fuse is removed) compare to the ground, then say "THERE IS A DROP IN VOLTAGE WHEN THE FUSE IS REMOVED" Yes! it is zero.
but if you measure across the fuse it is not zero it is maximum.
I think I am clear enough!