• Welcome to the Contour Enthusiasts Group, the best resource for the Ford Contour and Mercury Mystique.

    You can register to join the community.

I am so lost...

R

Red99CSVT

CEG'er
Joined
Mar 1, 2007
Messages
437
Location
Gig Harbor, Wa
Alright everyone I've figured out he mods I'm doing and have been looking into tuning the pcm but I can't get my head wrapped around it. I'm installing an intake w/heashield, MSDS headers, Truebends y-pipe w/high flow cat, cat back not sure which one yet, and a Zex dry kit 75 shot. Also a Fidanza flywheel and Spec clutch thats it for engine mods I'm sure a tune is in order but do I just buy an Xcal and have a tune put on it? Can I take my car to a shop and get it dyno tuned without installing anything as far as engine managment??? I can't get it figured out anyone that will give me straight answers please help me out the threads in this forum confused me even more if they did anything.
 
okay.

in order to change what the PCM is seeing or doing you need to be able to alter it in some way.
  • There is the XCAL2(or 3, now) which alters the STOCK PCM's actual code. there is nothing to solder on, nothing to attach, no piggyback methods..
  • You have a PCM chip you can add to the PCM.. it alters the commands given to the car. You(or a company) have to open your PCM itself and solder (or clip, nowadays) the electronic components to your stock PCM
  • as a smaller section to PCM chips, you can get a "flip chip", which is installed the same way with some additional wiring running to a switch. The switch controls which "tune" program the chip will run. (aggressive/more power/less mileage, or safer, longevity, more mpg etc)
Now, once you have a method to modify the PCMs output/input you can tune it.
  • You can "dyno tune" it, but the dyno shop needs to be able to communicate with your specific method of PCM alteration. (ie.. if you have an Xcal, they need to "support" an XCAL at that location)
  • email tune it (which is what "most" tuning methods will come with. You get a VERY basic tune preloaded on your chip based on engine size and APPROXIMATE mods (if they go that far)
So.. no matter which option you do, there ARE possibilities.. sure.

My choice?

Obtain an XCAL2 and get it tuned via Nautilus Performance (Tom is, without question or debate, the number one tuner for the Duratec platform out there.. bar none..)

he will send you a tune to upload with your XCAL and then you can drive around while "logging" your driving.. send those logs back to Tom and he will further tailor the tune.. upload, rinse, repeat until you are tuned to the max. No dyno trips, no dyno pull $$, no soldering, no worries, and being able to rest knowing you have the MOST for your money

Other companies give you one tune, the initial one mailed with your chip) and you PAY for another one

How do you KNOW you need another one? you don't.. the car has to be un-driveable enough for YOU to realize you aren't "as good" as you could be, then YOU have to pay again to retry.

so...

cliff's notes.

XCAL
Tom
sleep well
 
Thanks for putting it in a way I can understand I appreciate it. I'll do some more reading up on the Xcal2/3 and go from there to make my choice. I've read on here a couple have run the Zex kit w/o a tune which I wouldn't think is recommended even though the kit regulates and helps compensate. Now with the Xcal2 it talks about a wideband a/f gauge to tune it best. I will be installing an a/f gauge but it's not a wideband and the biggest reason besides the obvious horsepower that's gained is to be sure my a/f is in the safe zone when I'm on the bottle. How is that going to be tuned via e-mail if I don't have the wideband?
 
if you are installing a NARROW BAND o2 gauge you are wasting your time.

The narrow band gauge works as simply a visual way of representing what the stock O2 sensors on the car are seeing. That is, they are only able to tell if the mixture is above, or below stoic. They can differentiate between "barely rich" or "more than barely rich".. that's it. same way for the lean side.. "barely too lean" and "anything more than barely too lean".

there is no accuracy. the gauge you are using will simply move those "measurements" to a visual LED light show.

The car will be "barely too rich", it will show that, compensate in reducing the fuel, then the sensor will see "too lean" and the lights will swing the other way. there will be no way to tell HOW much too lean/rich you were, or even how much you will be. The lights bounce back and forth because all it does is correlate the O2 sensor voltage to the leds.

Wideband O2 sensors are accurate to a specific mixture level. They can represent a mixture level. it doesn't just say "its rich, or "more rich".. it shows exactly how rich.

don't buy a narrow band. if you did, return it.. if you can't, sell it.

If nobody will buy it, eat the loss.

buy a wideband.
period.
 
Looks like I need to buy a new a/f gauge then not a big deal the other one I bought I got a deal on only paid like $40 for it. Thanks alot for your helping me understand Ray.
 
Alright so I went and bought an AEM wideband a/f ratio gauge to complete my selection of aftermarket gauges now all I need is an Xcal from warmonger. Always one more thing to buy right?
 
I would recommend a flip chip over the Xcal to anyone running nitrous. It's a lot more convenient to switch and the tunes will be drastically different with a dry nitrous system.
 
After doing some more reading the flip chip does look like a really good idea for anyone running nitrous because it can be switched on the fly. Dammit I don't know what I want to do again. Is anyone on here running a flip-chip?
 
The only reason I'm really thinking about it is the cost because if I go with the flip chip to be totally safe when I'm on the bottle I need to get it dyno tuned right? Then when I move to Arizona in april I have to get the car retuned again? I'm asking the questions I don't know the answer to.
 
With a dry shot you most certainly need to get it tuned. Although i suppose if you ran a small enough shot the stock rich afr might not be too bad.

But i would always recommend you get nitrous tuned. The reason for getting the flip chip is that it holds 2 tunes. You get one tune for non-nitrous and a nitrous tune. Shut car off, flip switch and you're good to go. I used to do it on my car driving down the road.
 
I e-mailed Jon at Horsepower Ranch in Wa (where my CSVT is) and he told me it's about 2 hours on the dyno to tune it at $150 an hour and the chip is $200 so I'm looking at $500 to get the flip-chip they also dyno tune for the Xcal. Horsepower Ranch is where most guys on the SVTPerformance forums suggested to go they are supposed to be really good. He also told me that I shouldn't need to get the car retuned when I go to Az I'm going to have a wideband installed so I guess when I get there if it's off I can always get the car retuned. Still if I go the Xcal way then whenever I want the car retuned I just do some datalogging and e-mail it to warmonger.

I think I'm going to end up flipping a quarter to decide which way to go, lol.
 
No, you wouldn't need the car retuned.

Flip-chip = change tune quickly whenever you want
Xcal2 = change tune with a reflash... not to quick and convenient
 
not too quick??

turn key on, choose new tune, wait about 1 minute..
??

not "as quick" not I'd hardly say "not too quick/convenient"
 
Yeah, or you could be rolling down the street, clutch in, turn off car, flick switch, restart and floor it.

Whatever... listen to me or not, i don't care.
 
It wasn't about "listening to you or not", man.. I was just trying to make sure that both sides are conveyed as accurately as possible.




My only "con" against the flip-chip is in the cost savings if you EVER change ANYTHING that requires a retune..

therein, the SCT would be a "cheaper" and "better" solution, though slightly slower when changing tunes.
 
Both systems have their pro's and con's like everything else. I've bought everything I'm going to put on the car and have no plans on adding anything new in the near future. The reason I'm leaning towards the flip-chip now is I don't know every-time I'm going to be running nitrous so having a switch to flip tunes seems like the better way to go for me since I'm installing everything I want the car to have. Here's a link to the thread with my parts list on it everything will be installed before I tune the car whichever way I decide to go.

http://www.contour.org/ceg-vb/showthread.php?t=20331
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top