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3L Seems Slow... new to this!

H

HydroStream6

New CEG'er
Joined
Aug 1, 2006
Messages
17
Location
Rochester, NY
Anyways I'm kinda new to this. I used to have SHOs and have moved on to LS1s so I don't know much about the Duratecs. This is my girlsfirends car. It came from MA a year and a half ago and she finally wants to do something with it. I'm not positive of the mods because I didn't do it, but to my knowledge this is what it has:

3L from a Taurus
Forged internals
SVT Cams
MSDS Headers and Y
Brullen catback I *think*
Some Cougar tranny (supposedly better)
Quiafe <- verified :D
Spec Stg 2
JDM Chip

She lost the original sheet she had with the mods but that's it to my memory. I don't remember if it has 3.0L Taurus heads or the SVT heads, but it was the better of the 2 and had some light porting, along with a knife edged crank, forged pistons and rods. CR is a little high if I remember, something like 11:1.

Anyways, it has a few issues with the tuning. It idles very low @ about 500rpm and the limiter is set around 6500, which seems very low to me. It also is very rich (has 24lbhr injectors I believe). Also, the seconadaries open around 2000rpm, and when they do the car just falls on its face til about 4000rpm. Seems like they should open later.

Now I've tuned my own cars over the years and have a lot of expieriece with it, but I don't know what to get to tune this car. From what I've read it looks like if I purchase the xCal2 for about $500 I still can't tune it myself, which seems stupid to me.

So, what should I do? And how fast should this thing be? She ran a 05 Civic SI which was stock and it pulled her... I thought for sure this should be an easy 13s car.

Thanks, and I look forward to your responses!

-Adam
 
for starters, considering u've moved up to LS1s, anything else u drive will be considerably slow. if it falls flat on its face at 4000rpms, ur tune's messed up. secondaries opening up too early will make it run like crap. theres no way a 130lbs torque civic will be able to take a 3l. first try n confirm wot exactly was done to this car. sounds like u got an SE in there.
 
minus the JDM yo!! chip it should be a low 14's maybe very high 13's,judging by your off memory mod list. contact nautilus performance(warmonger on here) if you tell him your exact mods he'll be able to hook you up w/a xcal or flip chip w/a tune(s).
 
It doesn't fall on it's face at 4000 it starts to pull at 4000. The secondaries are opening around 2000 and that's when it just dies. It's like when you take off in everyday traffic from a stop, you can feel the tq there from 1k-2k then it just falls off til about 4k. Maybe I'll try emailing this warmonger guy but I was really hoping I could tune it myself.

Any idea what rpm this car should pull to? 6500 is low right?
 
HydroStream6 said:
It doesn't fall on it's face at 4000 it starts to pull at 4000. The secondaries are opening around 2000 and that's when it just dies. It's like when you take off in everyday traffic from a stop, you can feel the tq there from 1k-2k then it just falls off til about 4k. Maybe I'll try emailing this warmonger guy but I was really hoping I could tune it myself.

Any idea what rpm this car should pull to? 6500 is low right?
Click to expand...

Stock limiter is set to 6750 RPMs. Many people raise it to at least 7000 RPMs. Secondaries open at about 3750 RPMs iirc. Not sure if its the butt dyno, but 2000 RPMs is rediculously low. Have someone slowly raise the RPM's while in neutral while your looking at the secondary linkage underneath the hood. Look to see when it moves. I'd ditch that JDM chip. Actually, I doubt its a JDM chip. I dont think theyve ever tuned for this platform. Personally, I would just get a chip from Nautilus Performance (www.nautilusperformance.com) since they have the most experience with the duratec.

Btw, if you have the 2.5L heads, that will automatically bump compression to 11.2:1. 3.0L heads will keep the stock compression of 10:1. Not sure if your forged pistons are bumping the compression back up. What rods and pistons does it have?

I would personally get it on the dyno to see exactly what the powerband and AFR looks like. If i had to guess, whoever tuned it, left it tuned for 19 lb injectors and its running pegged rich with those 24 lb injectors.
 
Awesome thanks for the info.

I can actually hear the secondaries open... it sounds just like my SHOs did anyways. It almost seems load or throttle percentage dependant, if that's possible? Or it could just be that you only hear them when you're more "on the gas". I will visually check as well though.

Previous owner said it was a JDM chip but who knows. I don't even know where the computer is in this car.. is it behind the glove box like most?

My buddy has a dyno so we have access whenever really, so I will probably throw it up there just to get a baseline. I'm also trying to track down the previous owner to get the mod list again, but it was over a year ago so I don't know if he would even know still. I believe it was JE pistons.

Also, I've been talking to a certain company that offers kick ass tuning software that I use on my GMs, and they just recently came out with Ford Mustang and Truck support and they say Contour support is in the future, so that will be great news for everyone! We will see what happens with that I guess.
 
I didnt not see what year the car was...
If its a 2000, tuning it is going to be much harder as alot of the PCM's have the port shut off from the factory.

The Secondaries are Driven Strickly by the computer and RPM's. Throttle position doest matter, as you can be WOT @ 1200 RPM's and the Secondary's are not opening.

As said before 3750 is where the secondaries open. You should check and see if you even have the Lower Intake with the secondaries. If not, when you get a tune, you can have it tuned out, so you dont even NEED the IMRC.

Do you have any Check engine lights? Any Codes?
 
Car is a 98... perhaps it doesn't even have the secondaries but I swear I can hear it... I'm going to go out and look at it closer right now.

Is there a benefit to not having the lower intake? Seems to me you'd want it in place...

No CELs... just an ABS light from a bad sensor I've yet to change out :D
 
Just went out and did a quick check... the linkage is still there and it moves just before 3000rpm... whether or not theyre doing anything I guess could be a different story. When driving it really sounds like they open at about 2k and the car just completely falls on it's face... maybe they really are opening at 3k and it's just the tuning making it fall on it's face at 2k.
 
hmm,theres a few members up in rochester,and one of them knows a guy who's sct certified. maybe get in touch w/them:shrug: brad,spy_guy had a 3l svt up that way and knows a good bit about them. andy,99mystiqueatx has the sct hookup:cool:
 
mine with a gutted lower intake still sounds like they are still there. sound doesnt matter. its most definitly the tune.
 
She got it from an acquaintance of mine from Spencer, MA, Kirk Doucette. He's big in the SHO community. I believe it came from out there, but he did not do the work. It was someone he knew. It's a black 98, no rear spoiler, has some Voxx wheels on it... maybe someone knows it.
 
sounds like someone tuned the secondaries wrong. take out the chip and reset the ecu..... the pcm shoudl still give you a decent AFR for the 3L. long enough to get a good tune. you could also look at the intakes and clean the carbon off of them.
 
I say grab some 19 lb injectors, pull out the chip and see how it runs. Bet it runs a lot better. 19lb injectors are good for about 220-230 whp anyways. Either that, or get a chip from nautilus like I said. You said youre wanting to put it on the bottle once it gets everything sorted out, so you may just want to get a different tune with your current injector setup. Sounds like the previous owner screwed things up.

Get it on the dyno! That will really tell the story.
 
i know who's car that was!!!! i've met and bought some stuff from kirk before. he own's a sho buisness out there. the old owner was/is a member here,and is on shoforums too(i'm over there too) its chknhwk's old car. that thing never ran very smooth for him either.:shrug:
 
Yup that's our car! There we go then we now have a mod list... lol.

Anyone know this "Brad Noon"? Says it has a Brad Noon 3L Duratec... then I can find out the internals of the engine.

And it does have 24# injectors... I'm kinda scared just to swap to 19s and "hope" the AFR is good. I guess I could do it and throw it on the dyno.. anyone have an idea what a set of 19s might cost?

Looks like we're getting somewhere now! Thanks everyone!

Also, am I right in assuming the PCM is behind the glovebox like a SHO?

Also, what is your name over there 95pgt-t? I'm Trojan Man... I had a SC'd 3.2L MTX 92 and an 89 among a bunch of others...
 
i dont post alot over there(letmeshou,iirc). everyone here knows who brad noon is..:laugh: he's still here. pm him and maybe he'll know:confused: 19lbs injectors should be just about free..lol. if not i'd expect to pay 60 or so for them. stock injectors for all csvts 98-99(later are 19's too,but returnless)
 
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