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non-uniform overheating behavior, after fan fix

C

contour1996utah

New CEG'er
Joined
Dec 29, 2005
Messages
15
I have had overheating problems for the last few months, and now that I solved one cause, via advice on the list, I am wondering what else.

I replaced the fan relay and temperature sensor. Before, the cooling fan was turning on with defroster, and not by temperature. Today, the fan turns on with the temperature, but I still experience all this.

If the engine runs in idle, the temperature rises in a couple min to almost red zone, the fan turns on, and in less than a min the temperature drops to normal.

While I am on the freeway, the temperature stays in perfect normal, but if I then stop and run idle, or I climb a hill, the engine heats up more than it used to.

If I open the engine, it feels hot, if I pull the oil stick a puff of smoke comes out. Also, the oil is clean and clear, the top part of the stick (only) seems to have had oil burned on it.

If the engine is brought to overheating by running idle, the puff from the oil stick does not come out.

Could it be the water pump going bad? What else?
 
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You probably noticed slightly different temperture readings because of the new sensor.

My guess on the over heating is that you have a blocked/semi blocked port. Its not causing enough overheating to burn oil when your moving and the air rushing through the compartment cools the motor, but when you're at idle, the clog is causing a cooling problem which is why the oil is burning. I would stop driving the car if you can, and get the system flushed, not drained, and that will hopefully correct the problem.


I would doubt that the waterpump has failed because if it has, you would never reach a normal temp while driving.


Anyone else with more experience in cooling systems can chime in if I'm mistaken.
 
it seems that at this point it could be:
- a clogged radiator, or
- a pump going bad, or
- a powerflush done twice in 1 year by an idiot.

considering that it is a 1996 with 82000 miles, what are the chances of which?

what test can i do to figure out which of the two it may be, without taking things apart?

thanks so much,

Stefano
 
Warm up the car (should be quick and easy:laugh: ), then turn on the heat "power" to max, and heater blower to max. If air coming out is hot, most probably not water pump. If air coming out is cool, most probably broken (or failing) water pump.

You may have a failing thermostat ($10) too. For $10 (and maybe 20 minutes of your time), this is too cheap and easy not to try first. ;)
Read this autozone link.
http://www.autozone.com/servlet/UiB..._us/0900823d/80/1b/c8/7d/0900823d801bc87d.jsp

For the radiator, well, a pressure test will determine if it is clogged. And most radiator shops will probably charge one hour for that. 9 times out of 10, they will say you need a new radiator. ;)
 
- the thermostat has been changed too.
- the heat works, so the water pump may not be too bad

at this point i am wondering two things:

how can i test that the two speeds of the fan? it comes on by itself at high temp, but is that the low or high?

is it normal that the oil stick has burned oil on the *top part* and lets a puff when sliding it out? this seems to happen even if i leave the defroster on, i.e. fan working all time

after the relay fix, the temperature on the dashboard seems better, and also the engine feels less hot when I stop and feel under the hood, so the oil stick is the one thing that makes me worry because I had never seen something like that.

thanks

Stefano
 
"how can i test that the two speeds of the fan?"
Read this "fan-topic"
http://www.contour.org/ubbthreads/s...er=1147747&page=&view=&sb=5&o=&fpart=all&vc=1

"it comes on by itself at high temp, but is that the low or high?"
Probably high.

"is it normal that the oil stick has burned oil on the *top part* and lets a puff when sliding it out?"
IIRC, you have a Zetec 4 cylinder. On my V6 Duratec, after a long drive (one or two hours), and when I stop to gas up, there is also some "smoke" coming out of the tube when I check the oil. However, I don't know about this "puff" of smoke thing. As for the burned oil, the entire engine is hot. In my opinion, having a little burned oil on top is fine.
 
i did the two jumping tests and the fan runs at both speeds, so seems to me that the relay works.

however, I did not understand the rest of the wiring and test (what is ECT, CEL light?) and if it does or not apply if both speeds work.

>>
You could pull the ECT sensor plug, see if the fan comes on and stays on. That will set the CEL light.) The Pin 7 of low speed relay goes to PCM (Powertrain Control Module) which triggers the relay, and could be a wiring problem there. The a/c should trigger the fan after a short delay. Fan first, compressor next is how mine (V6) works. If the fan does not work, the a/c will overpressure shortly, turn a/c off asap. Here is a V6 schematic, the Zetec is the same, 1 fan motor instead.
<<

about the smoke, seems from burning oil on the upper part of the stick as i slide it out, rather than a puff coming out of the tube: however, seems quite a lot and never seen some like this for 10 years of this contour.

what is IIRC?

thanks, stefano
 
ECT Engine Coolant Temperature sensor. Posted in your first thread. So, did you change the ECT or the Temperature Gauge Sender previously.
http://www.contour.org/ceg-vb/showthread.php?t=2893

CEL Check Engine Light.

IIRC If I recall (remember) correctly

"about the smoke, seems from burning oil on the upper part of the stick as i slide it out, rather than a puff coming out of the tube: however, seems quite a lot and never seen some like this for 10 years of this contour."
Well, as you mentioned, the engine is running warmer than the past.
 
got it

ECT changed, as well as thermostat, low fan speed relay, powerflush twice ... of course i wonder if the mechanic did a good job!

the check engine light (I submitted a post months ago) was coming up when I was accelerating going uphill, after coming out of a freeway (3 times in the same spot, believe it or not) and the error was "lean fuel" or something like that, which did not come anymore after i replaced all the oxigen sensors, and cleaned up the MAF sensor.

so at this point, assuming good jobs by the mechanic, radiator, fan, and water pump, and hoses, are the unchanged parts ...

I am still wondering whether the increased engine heat which is normal atgiven the 10 years of age (but only 82000 miles), or if there may be still to worry.

if there is a chance to ruin the engine, i would prefer to change radiator, etc etc. but again I am not sure what is the indicator that the engine is put under too much stress.

what do you think?
 
I remember a CEGer had a Zetec overheating somewhat, it was the waterpump. Also, coolant might be diluted (too much water).
 
Master: I have to say that after changing the low speed relay it seems to help a bit, but not a lot (or is it placebo?).

when i turn on the defroster, the temperature in the dashboard barely moves from normal, so it would indicate that making the fan work more, it is better.

however, the smoking oil stick happens with defroster too, and the fan jump test runs both speeds. so:
- shall i change the cooling fan?
- or the high speed relay?
- or what other electrical circuit may have gone bad?

I'd have to say that when my liner under the engine fell off last year, there were some hanging wires, which I wrapped up with fasteners, as the original fasteners had broken. could it be one of that? that seems to coincide with the time all the overheating started.
 
contour1996utah said:
...
I'd have to say that when my liner under the engine fell off last year, there were some hanging wires, which I wrapped up with fasteners, as the original fasteners had broken. could it be one of that? that seems to coincide with the time all the overheating started.
Click to expand...
If you had a Duratec, I would say yes. The lower radiator air deflector helps to cool the radiator by drawing air away. Not sure if the Zetec has something like that. If you do, then, go to the junk yard and get one or contact our resident used part specialist.
http://www.contour.org/ceg-vb/showthread.php?t=4490
 
i have a 2.0L GL model, so by reading around seems to me zetec.

i will look into that anyway?

so you think that if jumping tests good, electrical problems are to exclude?

at this point i am still wondering of concurrence of problems ...

shall i rely on the temperature in the dashboard to think that engine is not overheating too much?

when I park in the garage sometimes there is a bit of smell that tells me that the engine heated up more than other times.
 
If the fan runs appropriately, high and low, and has strong flow, I would say it's OK, if not making odd noises or too slow to get up to speed. The low speed fan should come on with a/c use and it does (front defroster uses a/c) . You could replace the high speed relay, or check for bad wiring under the relay box and your shield area. The way the fan works in 90 degree weather on a V6, the low runs with a/c, and kicks up to high when the engine gets to M on the temp gauge. Or just low at M no a/c on, like when I reach work in 40 degree weather... A missing deflector will cause trouble in warm weather.
 
that's what i was thinking: the deflector should not be a problem now that we are in the 30s.

if the defroster turns on the low speed fan, you are making me think that i may never get the high speed. i thought the opposite ....

what i have never seen is the the fan turning on at low and then going high
 
FavoriteMystaque said:
...... A missing deflector will cause trouble in warm weather.
Click to expand...

contour1996utah said:
that's what i was thinking: the deflector should not be a problem now that we are in the 30s.
...
Click to expand...

Based on anectodal experience and evidence, I have to disagree with the Master and you on this. I do drive in 30 degree weather in the evenings too. After a long (sometimes 30 minutes to 2 hour) highway drive, and then being stuck in "stop and go" traffic for 10 minutes of so, I can see the temperature gauge going up and then hear the fans kicking in. So if the deflector is missing, I would think that would exacerbate the situation.
 
great, i will ge the liner and see.

however, i still would appreciate input on these issues.

1- how can i test if the two speed fans come when they are supposed to? when i jump test them, the two speeds work. However, i can't hear the fan while driving, but only see if the temperature indicator goes down. When i idle or can hear the fan from the hood i do not know the speed and i NEVER heard the fan change speed, so i am not sure it is was low or high.

2- shall i rely on the temperature in the dashboard to think that engine is not overheating too much? (NEW tem sensor sending unit)

3- is the burning oil on the top part of the stick something that would happen normally if the engine runs hotter, though not hot to be ruined?

(2.0L GL model, 1996, 82000m )

thanks, stefano
 
"1- how can i test if the two speed fans come when they are supposed to? when i jump test them, the two speeds work. However, i can't hear the fan while driving, but only see if the temperature indicator goes down. When i idle or can hear the fan from the hood i do not know the speed and i NEVER heard the fan change speed, so i am not sure it is was low or high."
Test the relays before replacing.

"2- shall i rely on the temperature in the dashboard to think that engine is not overheating too much? (NEW tem sensor sending unit)"
For now, sure. If you would like to invest $200 or so, get a Actron 9145 and it will record the actual temps.

"3- is the burning oil on the top part of the stick something that would happen normally if the engine runs hotter, though not hot to be ruined?"
I wonder if your top heat shield is missing. There is a "silver" shield on top of the Zetec engine. It has hand with a "X" on it to show that it is hot. Some have posted in the past, that the top portion of the engine is hotter without that.
 
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