65mm TB

[rkneeshaw]

I've searched and heard of about 18 different ways to install a 65mm TB and I'm wondering if someone can give me a straight up, here's-the-best-way, buy-this answer. Please correct me where I'm wrong:

I've got a 3L with SVT UIM, so I think the UIM opening is 65mm which means it will bolt up to a 65mm TB quite well.

The SVT TB-to-UIM gasket I have seems like it is smaller than 65mm, closer to 62mm, so maybe I should be getting a mustang TB gasket? Whats the easiest solution here? I have to buy a new gasket anyway.... so if one works without modification I'll just order the right one.....

Is there a specific model year mustang TB I want? Seems there was mention of differences between different 4.6L mustang TB's.

And also, I'm under the impression that I can take a 65mm TB, and use the TPS, shaft, spring/linkage from my SVT TB and move it to the 65mm TB. Basically, use all the 60mm SVT parts except for the housing and butterfly plate, which I would use from the 65mm TB. (obviously I'd have to modify the SVT TB shaft to fit the larger butterfly, but that would be the only real "modifcation" other than swapping parts) Is this the best way to make this work?

And lastly, any odd side effects of this mod? Weird throttle response or anything?

 

[morbid]

Gasket:
The mustang one is rectangular paper... and will not block the EGR, etc. I've read about people using sheet metal + mustang gasket on TB side, and SVT gasket on the UIM side. I just got a 1/8" sheet of teflon and cut it to size.

TB shaft:
I've read that the proper way to do it is to remove both shafts from the cams and weld the mustang shaft to the SVT cam. However, I don't weld and found there was an extra 1/8" on the TPS mount that could be ground off before the TPS center contacts the TB. So, I just ground it down and there's plenty of shaft tab -> TPS contact.

Throttle stop:
You won't have one with the mustang TB + SVT cam setup. I'm not sure how the others are doing it. I used a piece of 1/2" aluminum u-channel, cut about 1/2" of the sides... leaving only the center. I drilled a hole in that center only section for the upper-right TB bolt. I put a very small s-bend in it before the u-channel section, to get the channel closer to the UIM.... the bend hugs the TB side then goes parallel to the UIM. I drilled a hole towards the end, where the cam stop hits, and put a bolt through that hole, with nuts on either side. That bolt + 2 nuts is my adjustable throttle stop.

Years:
I'm not possitive of the range (1996-2001?). According to fordpartsonline, there's a 96-98; 98-00; and a 01. All are the same price... so I'm not sure why they are listed separately. I believe mine is from a 98.

 

[warmonger]

Ryan,

If it is a Ford 65mm then yes the throttle shafts should be the same length and diameter between the SVT 60 and stang 65mm.
You can then press out the shaft after unbolting the throttle plate and swap out. You will need to use a hacksaw blade to widen the slot on the 60mm shaft to fit the larger plate, but that is all.
It is the 70mm TBs that must be welded together to create a proper SVT linkage system, and some aftermarket 65mm ones.

You also will need both your old 60mm SVT gasket and a 65mm gasket. You will need to make a thin adapter plate to cover the entrance to the manifold that the 65mm TB does not cover. THen there is a vacuum passage on the 65mm TB that must be plugged off with epoxy to make sure you don't leak around it.
After that you are good.

 

[Pole120]

Ryan,

When my Tb is done in the next couple days I'll post a series of pictures....it's rather simple and requires no modification or parts form the valuable SVT TB other than the TPS, if you have a stock MTX duratec tb sittinga round things are even easier.

I ran into problems trying to use the SVT stock shaft in the 65mm TB housing so I'm doing my own thing that should work very well.

There are a few things with the SVT shaft useage i have issues with that i'l adress sompletly when i do my write up.

~Josh

 

[rkneeshaw]

Ok, so here's what I'll need then:

Ford 65mm TB from a 96-98 mustang
Some QuickSteel maybe to fill that vacuum hole?
A SVT 60mm TB gasket AND a 65mm mustang TB gasket.

I have a dremel with metal grinding bits and a hacksaw with metal blade.

I would like this project to be reversable if I screw it up or cant complete it. So if I want to avoid cutting up or modifying my stock SVT TB I should probably pick up a cheap regular 54mm non-svt TB from a contour for the TPS sensor and whatever other parts need to be swapped, right?

 

[Pole120]

I would like this project to be reversable if I screw it up or cant complete it. So if I want to avoid cutting up or modifying my stock SVT TB I should probably pick up a cheap regular 54mm non-svt TB from a contour for the TPS sensor and whatever other parts need to be swapped, right?

The TPS is different between the SVT and the regular durateh so either way you'll need an SVT TPS to work with the 65mm (they rotate opposite the regular duratech and THE TPSs are not interchangeable. If you need one i've got 4 or 5 of them.

I too wanted this to be reversable so I'm devising a way to build this 65mm without taking any parts off an SVT TB.

Let me take some pictures this evening and show you what I'm talking about. I've got all three stock duratech, 65mm and SVT TB's disassembled with shafts pressed out so i can take some side by side pictures for you.

~Josh

 

[todras]

duratech,

~Josh

:laugh:

 

[rkneeshaw]

THE TPSs are not interchangeable. If you need one i've got 4 or 5 of them.

Yeah i'll take you up on that offer. Bring 1 to SZ for me please.

 

[Pole120]

I took a bunch of pictures of the 65mm and SVT TBs and components tonight, i'll try and get them posted tomorrow, I am le' tired.

 

[warmonger]

The TPS is different between the SVT and the regular durateh so either way you'll need an SVT TPS to work with the 65mm (they rotate opposite the regular duratech and THE TPSs are not interchangeable. If you need one i've got 4 or 5 of them.

I too wanted this to be reversable so I'm devising a way to build this 65mm without taking any parts off an SVT TB.

Let me take some pictures this evening and show you what I'm talking about. I've got all three stock duratech, 65mm and SVT TB's disassembled with shafts pressed out so i can take some side by side pictures for you.

~Josh

Devising a way?
It's already been done. A shaft extension on the 65mm works. Can be welded on or not. THen you can remove the SVT fulcrum and springs and install them on the 65mm with a bolt after tapping the shaft extension.
It's not worth it though.
Simplest way I do it is to remove the stakes that hold the SVT springs and linkage on and pull that off. Then take a 3/8" dowel steel pin from a hardware store and slot the end to fit on the 65mm. Then you seam weld it on and grind down the weld till smooth. THen you can slot the new end to fit the SVT linkage in the right spot and as I said tap it to hold a screw.

 

[Pole120]

Devising a way?
It's already been done. A shaft extension on the 65mm works. Can be welded on or not. THen you can remove the SVT fulcrum and springs and install them on the 65mm with a bolt after tapping the shaft extension.
It's not worth it though.

As I've stated I'll post pictures ASAP of the problems i encountered doing what youv'e described. I am also NOT using any parts from an SVT TB other than the TPS. Perhaps my TB is different than what you've worked with(year variances perhaps), but the things you're describing did not work for me, so i figured it out on my own.

no shaft extensions, no cutting off and welding of fulcrums. Just simple modification to linkages that can be done cheaply and easily if you have a welder.

Give me just a little time here and I'll show you what I've done instead of trying to explain it.

 

[rkneeshaw]

What are the options if I dont have access to a welder?

 

[jaged]

i used the linkage from the 3L tb. It just gets modified like the svt linkage. it pulls differently than the 2.5 tb, but im still using the 3L uim so it works out for me

 

[morbid]

What are the options if I dont have access to a welder?

As I stated above.. use your SVT cam+shaft and grind off about 1/8" of the TPS mount. Look how deep the TPS is, and look how deep the mount is. Grind it until the TPS "cone" almost meets with the cone in the mount. No welding, it's cheap and can be done with standard tools... it just takes some time to ensure the mount is squared.

 

[Y2KSVT]

Too much "stuff" going on with these 65mm T/B installs! You use the entire 65mm T/B, with the SVT TPS only! Pull the plate, rotate the shaft 180 degrees, and reinstall the plate. Rotate the shaft to see what interference issues you have, and grind those tabs off of the T/B casing. From there, install the T/B on the UIM, and pull the tab to WOT, bending the upper tab so it hits the UIM at WOT, or you can make a bracket for it to hit if you don't want it smacking the UIM. Install the TPS correctly, and you're good to go! The only part I had to buy, was a package of cable-stops for a couple bucks, to shorten the cable and allow for the new cable-stop to spin freely, where the SVT cable-stop was too big for the 65mm T/B cam, and was extremely tight, which causes the cable to bend and break. Everything clear now? :laugh:

Mark

 

[Pole120]

I get what you're saying. I am using the entire 65mm TB minus the TPS as well, only difference is i've clearance the UIM a bit to allow the 65mm TB to function through it's full range of motion as assembled stock with the stock stops unmodified. The only thing i did to the 65mm TB was remove the linkage ball and in it's place weld on one form an SE TB. I'll use an SE TB cable i have sitting around with the SVT cable bracket.

 

[Pole120]

OK I'm taking a few minutes to document the problems i encountered while trying to do the 65mm TB as described by others and to show how i ended up doing it.

Problems:

With both SVT and 65mm TB shafts and fulcrum's separated, my understanding was that you must simply put the SVT fulcrum on the 65mm shaft and you're all set...well...in order to get the bolt holes in the center of the TB the fulcrum interferes with the TB.

So i try the complete SVT shaft assembly in the 65mm housing and the shaft can't reach the TPS...it sits flush with the housing, not to mention the fulcrum has to place to contact the housing to stop rotation when WOT is reached.

In addition to these two problems, The 65mm butterfly plate is thicker than the SVT, so there is a LOT of work i would imagine to make it fit. Also, you'll notice that the o-rings on the SVT TB are closer together than the 65mm and they would now sit inside the bearings making them useless for preventing a vacuum leak at the shaft holes.

My solution to the problems:

Skip the SVT parts all together minus the TPS. I welded an SE TB linkage ball in place of the smaller diameter 65mm piece and will now be using an SE TB cable installed my SVT TB cable bracket. I still have to put the cruise linkage on. The TB now operates as if 100% stock with stops at the correct location and just has a different size linkage ball.

I did clearance the UIM just a tad to allow the linkage to rotate properly.

Also shown is my 1/16" thick graphite gaskets cut from a sheet ordered from McMaster Carr and my 1/8" thick aluminum plate for properly blocking off the would-be exposed EGR passage.

 

[warmonger]

Hey listen, that TPS tab does not have to stick way out on the 65mm TB housing for the TPS to still work on it. I tested this and the tps can still reach in and be properly actuated when the SVT shaft is inserted into the 65mm TB.

Also, in your first picture you show the SVT fulcrum on the mustang shaft saying it interferes. Of course it does if you don't add a simple 10mm worth of extension there.

I'm not telling you guys that there aren't more ways to make it work. Not at all, there are many ways.

I'm telling you guys what it takes to make it work EXACTLY like an SVT throttlebody with the EXACT same pedal feel and long-term durabilty with the throttle cables, the EXACT same bolt-up ans spring tension as a stock SVT TB.
Lots of people bend up their throttle cable linkage in order to fit the cables to fugged up linkage positions and the spring tension is never the same in those cases.
Don't take it as criticism, you can all do what you want to solve the problem. However the two methods I've highlighted produce exact bolt-on TBs for an SVT upper intake manifold.

 

[rkneeshaw]

However the two methods I've highlighted produce exact bolt-on TBs for an SVT upper intake manifold.

This is what I'm looking for. But what about the problem Josh highlighted about the o-rings on the svt shaft not sealing? It looks/sounds like a problem although I haven't heard of anyone saying they have a vacuum leak after installing one of these...

 

[Pole120]

Also, in your first picture you show the SVT fulcrum on the mustang shaft saying it interferes. Of course it does if you don't add a simple 10mm worth of extension there.

And what I'm saying is this was not described as being necessary in ANY of the many posts I've read on the subject prior to taking this project on so i had no idea i was going to encounter this problem. I'm trying to help those that have done all the reading i have by SHOWING what issues i encountered while attempting the method described elsewhere.

I'm telling you guys what it takes to make it work EXACTLY like an SVT throttlebody with the EXACT same pedal feel and long-term durabilty with the throttle cables, the EXACT same bolt-up ans spring tension as a stock SVT TB.

I'm simply stating that there is information missing, so we haven't been told what it takes clearly enough and we've had to figure a lot of it out on our own...I'm just trying to help others by documenting the EXACT problems people are going to run into if they attempt to do this as it's been described in the past, that is all.

I'm not telling you guys that there aren't more ways to make it work. Not at all, there are many ways.

I don't believe i ever stated that there was one and only one way of doing this....we're all learning here once in a while.

Lots of people bend up their throttle cable linkage in order to fit the cables to fugged up linkage positions and the spring tension is never the same in those cases.
Don't take it as criticism, you can all do what you want to solve the problem. However the two methods I've highlighted produce exact bolt-on TBs for an SVT upper intake manifold.

So what is you're suggestion for stopping the rotation of the SVT fulcrum??? I've neither seen nor read it anywhere. As you can see there is no tab cast on the 65mm housing to stop the fulcrum as there is on stock.




**I'm not bashing anyone's methods or putting them down in any way, i have a ton of respect for most of the people involved in this thread. What i am saying is that the information available isn't clear enough. Hell, if i can't figure it out i know there are many others will have trouble, and I'm not trying to gloat. I did my research and thought i was all ready to build my TB....there was obviously information missing because i was dumbfounded for some time trying to figure it out. I thought about lengthening the 65mm shaft and building some kind of stop for the fulcrum....but it was easier for me to just use a different linkage ball and go with the SE TB cable.**