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CD4E Woes - Drive in all ranges but reverse, which I believe is both..

sobitthen

CEG'er
Joined
Feb 27, 2012
Messages
34
Bought an '01 ZN Cougar from tow yard with blown motor, swapped engine, snagged harness on alternator stud and AIR pipe on exhaust. Also may have pinched it prying off starter...

My first symptom was no reverse, but I have since found that I am in drive in all ranges, engine is loading up in park, sits still in reverse, cannot push it either, goes forward in neutral, and rest of gears seemed normal, although there was snow on the road and I only went around block and took her up to 40, but engine seemed to shift 1-2-3. I also noticed that if I slowly move from reverse to park, it will lunge forward, as if the parking pawl is only thing keeping her in place while in park, motor is under load too in Park.

Fluid was nasty, drained and filled with synthetic fluid, friend had my scan tool at the time, so tried a range selector first, saw someone had drawn a white line that did not line up with either neutral or drive marks, same issue.
Next day scan tool was returned and received these codes: P0715 Turbine/Input shaft circuit, P0717 TSS no signal, P0460 Fuel sensor [gauge stays on E], P0505 Idle air control [thought since under load in Park this code may have set], and a code P1000 stating tests did not complete.
Installed new TSS and same symptoms... ground at trany and at frame were both corroded, cleaned and greased them both, plug in going to solenoid pack was full of antifreeze, blew it out and check for corrosion, nothing there... have Vol1 and 2 of the Ford manuals, Vol3 [electrical] is in the mail.

I am hoping this is something electrical , either harness or solenoid so could be fixed in car. Been reading across web for a week now, saw some comments on dealership being required to flash or code to correct shifting concerns. Hoping someone was familiar with this condition and could offer some suggestions as what to try next as the Ford manual and other people's posts did not have same exact problem description...
When electrical manual arrives was going to pull harness and test to make sure the minor tugging on harness, it was unhooked on each end, did not over stress any wires. I was working very slow since they are a tight fit in from the top and unheated garage in winter kept me moving slow too...

Will go and buy a pressure gauge with decent amount of hose so can read while test driving or shifting if required, tired of trucks and mini-vans for work and can't drive the bike in winter, would love to get this figured out... If I have to I will go MTX but prefer not to shift if I don't have to.. thanks for all who are able to share their thoughts... I will return when able...
 
Since no replies, called a trany shop.. they said 'reverse is welded up, good luck with that one'.... quite the comment I thought, told him I had full Ford service manual on that transmission, he said to buy a new transmission... was hoping he would say something about possible electrical issue... He didn't even sound enthused to get my business when he heard it was a V-6 in there...

A lot of views, were they just other owners with same problem hoping to find an answer?
 
Tried reflash since no communication to the PCM from the TSS even though TSS wiring was intact. No joy.
Pulled valve body solenoid pack, pulled SSA and SSB solenoids, applies 12VDC to solenoids, could hear then actuate, no movement on their pistons though...
Do they move under pressure or is this a sign they are stuck? A stuck SSA solenoid could be causing this condition I have and I do see options to buy the packs for as low as $50 tested...

Anyone ever test their solenoid packs?
 
barking up the wrong tree

barking up the wrong tree

You are most likely pissing up the wrong tree with the vb. Many folks here have fantasized that the vb is the problem and it is rarely if ever the real problem.

Same thing with reflashing the ecm.

Since you pulled the engine, I'd take and check continuity between the TSS (turbine speed sensor) located on the left end of the trans in the drivers wheel well and the ecm or whereever it goes.
 
I did that after replacing the TSS when it did not relieve the PCM of the code... 0 ohms so good connection to pin 84 of the PCM harness...
The pistons are not moving on those SSA and SSB solenoids when 12VDC is applies though, the actuate, but no movement...
going to make a test harness for those tomorrow and free up a hand and see if the move with some picks in case fluid pressure makes them move and the actuation is just releasing pressure on the pistons.. no clue, new to this transmission, but this step costs nothing and if they free up, could flush them and toss them back in quick, only a few ounces of fluid came out when the cover was removed so isn't going to cost me much other than my time...
 
Check BOTH wires

Check BOTH wires

I do believe that the TSS has TWO wires running to it. Might want to check both
 
You were right...

You were right...

I had an open on the reference ground, the hidden splice in wiring harness must be bad since the cam sensor is making it to pin 76 but the TSS wasn't, jumped a wire for testing and the TSS codes are now gone... Although my transmission is still bad...
Found a used Trany that has nice red fluid for $550, guess will pull both engine and trany out the top this time to swap the trany, no room in my small garage to drop subframe...
Thanks for pointing that out, I did not fully read schematic and the s366 is hidden inside the harness [ think it was s366 don't have book in front of me]
 
Cheaper to rebuild

Cheaper to rebuild

If it is a 2-4 band, then it is much cheaper to rebuild. If you are capable of taking out the trans, then you are capable of rebuilding.

IF you can leave well enough alone, you should only need to cut off a few bolts to make alignment tools for the vb and the oil lpump. Take it apart and I'll bet you'll find a cracked or broken 2-4 band. Put a new one in and put it back together.

About $150 for the fluids, band, a few gaskets, oil filter, and the torque coverter thrust washer which WILL be broken.

There are a few good books out on that trans, buy one.

Of course all of the above assumes the car is worth the time and money.
 
I was planning on tearing down the old one prior to picking up a new transmission..
I used to scrap many transmissions in the day, and 3 times lucked out just swapping broken parts from observation with the parts I had lying around in TH350s and 400s...
Lived out in the woods so learned how to get by with what you had and if they held up to me ram-rodding around in my GTO locally for a week, they were road trip ready...
I found a CD4E tool kit for under $100 and I do have the full Ford 2001 Cougar 3 piece manual set for this car..
Priced out a full kit w/pistons, a trans-go shift kit, and cooler already and had been thinking about that route, roughly $150.
I watched some videos on youtube and saw other's working environments and I am as clean as they were, hard parts seem cheap enough, will yank out motor/trany tomorrow or sometime this week depending on if I get any work tossed at me, also thought about going to local tech school, since alumni, and finding a student to sponsor to get his credit for his rebuild requirement, toss him a tip if it goes a month without incident and fluid stays pristine... But your route would be cheaper and I would know what I had, just have to find a place to flush converter, I have about everything but a parts cleaner...
 
I see you can't leave well enough alone

I see you can't leave well enough alone

If it is the 2-4 band, then there is really no need to replace all of the other stuff, like seals, clutch plates and other things. A transgo kit is only going to drain your wallet, the cars shift just fine, and it will just be another source of potential problems. Leave sleeping dogs lie. And most folks on this list don't bother with the vb. No tool kit is needed for the 2-4 band, just hand tools, REALLY. If you just can't help yourself and gotta do it you will also need the seal installation kit, the seals for the drums are pretty large and need a seal installation kit so that you don't tear them up installing the hard parts, many on this list have unknowingly torn up the seals and had to rebuild again.

To fix a 2-4 band, you do need to pull most of the trans apart, but the only parts you really NEED are the 2-4 band, the cover for the 2-4 band 'solenoid', the oil pump, case, and cover gaskets, an oil filter as it is buried in the center of the cases, and the torque coverter thrust bearing which WILL be broken.

Cooler, not needed at all. YES early (mazda and probe had overheating problems) trans had problems, but not these CD4E, ford got it right on the conturds. I towed my murdersycle from idhyo to mexico through the mountains and deserts at 75 mph with not a problem. Unless you have money buring a hole in your pocket you DON"T need a cooler.
 
So that 2-4 band could cause the issues reported?
I was looking at the 302 and 362 mechanical routines, although the 302 states no reverse only and the 362 is movement in neutral, trying to decipher the Ford manuals to diagnose the seemingly multiple failures I have and those 2 had 2 of my troubles... guess tear down and see what is worn...
will take your advise on cooler and vb kit, but with how burnt the fluid was, I would at least get the minimal rebuild kit with clutches, seals, and gaskets.
unfortunately my brass tumbler for reloading isn't big enough to toss in the steels, thought I recall them doing that, may be mistaken, getting late n meds are kicking in..
get any MPG towing that bike? I have the Cougar with the 2.5...
 
Out and Apart...

Out and Apart...

There was a small fracture in the weld of the double drum and its fingers were all grooved up, then the direct clutch was completely gone, nothing but the thin metal that used to be between the frictions and they were stuck to the direct shell, and those fingers were grooved and the end was blackened from overheating... the 2/4 band had all its material present, haven't tore out the servo to see if pin was good or not yet, but thinking that fracture allowed pressure to escape, known problem on web, and caused the direct clutch pack to fail...the forward to direct washer was split in 3, and my c-clamp fell off taking off that big single spring from forward clutch and I broke the clip as it was almost off and hung by an edge when c-clamp slid off and luckily I was not overhead , that puppy hit the roof, onto my cycle windshield, then floor, back up to ceiling then onto roof of car.. like some crazy cartoon... anyhow, going to wash off all parts and stack and put into plastic ziplocks, take note of anything else that may be bad and search for some hard parts... that double drum being the most costly... F8RZ-7G120-BA and shell F4RZ-7D064A should be correct OEM numbers... off to take quick spin on bike, when in garage on this project noticed tire must have picked up a rock last year and caught in tread and cut to cords.. darn tire had 1/2 tread left too.. see how this mich pilot tire rides... laterz..:laugh:
 
The dreaded double drum failure

The dreaded double drum failure

Thankfully it didn't happen to me. But several folks on this list have had the double drum failure. AMC49 will likely pipe in about inspecting the replacement to make certain that the circlip groove is not damaged.
 
Don't put a used double drum back in, get a new one. Even a new one will have very small cracks in it from the forward clutch pressure plate snap ring groove being formed when part was made. They'll last for a while. There is a bulletproof part now made but it's hard to find. I had to look high and low for mine. Compare the old drum against one of the modded ones and the difference in that groove is VERY apparent. Part number search was useless, mine had same number as bad oldstyle design right next to it on parts shelf.

After being fatigued from constant reapplications of forward clutch the ends of the drum start breaking off at the groove to get ground up in the cylinders since they are trapped in. Usually lots comes loose before finally the entire thing grenades, by then there's lots of damage. The rebuild on this problem is always very expensive.
 
If I rebuilt it I would put in a new one, but since I live in a small area, 200k population, there would be no viewing of parts on a shelf, more like ordering one online and getting what I get...
And hopefully it isn't a part another rebuilder rejected for his build...

Would that crack in the weld between the 2 sides of the drum have caused the direct clutch pack to wear out? other packs were good in other areas of this trany...
Also, where would I find supply of the c-clips in different thicknesses to get the correct clearances for the clutch packs?
 
Since there are a different number of steels and frictions between a 6 and a 4 cylinder, and according to charts the thickness of the steels varies, how do you figure out which rebuild kit to buy?
Been looking at them on eBay, and none of them differentiate between 4 and v-6...
I know you said avoid used, found fully stacked drum buyer claims is perfect for cheap, but also new one for close to same price, that according to what I've been researching should fit, but the drop down for application listing claims it doesn't, listed as v-6 98 to present...Manufacturer Part Number: WC96554CA
 
cleaned off parts, forward-coast-direct pressure plates are cooked, clutch hub of coast clutch is grooved too , and a snap ring for forward clutch and the plastic 4 tab washer for direct...
might go used trany at this point, if cost would have been cheaper on rebuild, I would have gone that route, or if I had a few more under my belt, plus could only find forward-reverse pressure plates at bulk part unless there are other sources... maybe sell the good parts on eBay and recover some of the cost of the used trany...
 
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