timing chain?

[NiggShevik]

I posted recently about a spinning/rattling/ticking noise coming from the engine. I took it in to a friend who has a shop and he said he thinks its the timing chain. Car has seemed weak recently and that does seem like a likely cause of the sound/power loss. Sound is coming from lower engine bay area.

He said the labor is expensive just to make sure that it's even what he thinks. Said about 8.5 hours altogether is what he estimated.

He's fixed some problems on my car before but I was just wondering if you think that sounds right?

Also, I was wondering if i should get an underdrive pulley since he's going in there? That might not even be possible though because this already is getting expensive.

 

[Ray]

a quick timing check wouldn't be expensive, nor anywhere near 8.5 hours, and would tell you if it was correct or not. Hell, pulling the entire chain wouldn't take 8.5 hours to replace it.

Why would you want a UDP? doesn't your car produce enough CO2 as it is?

 

[NiggShevik]

hahaha.. never said I wasn't part of the problem. I want the udp since the engine will be opened up and I might as well put a little power to it. I'm gonna have the tour for a while.

But as for the timing chain...what's the average length of time it would take to replace that? I think he got the 8.5 hours from a computed estimate. He gave me a wide price range with that estimate.

 

[skunk]

I'm going to warn you now. this happened to me already(last fall) and I did some research. this is a rare deal with this motor but it does happen. the deal is the chain tensioner gets weak for some reason and slacks off and lets the chain get loose,this was the case with mine anyway and with the others from what I've heard, 99% of time it doesn't jump time or do any damage, so checking the timing isn't going to show you anything and the noise will still be there mine never jumped time either, the labor per alldata and ford labor guide is 7.9hrs so he isn't that far off, although I don't see why anyone would think you would get the top off the motor off, ps pump, alternator, front cover, tensioners, chains, giudes off back on retimed and everything back together in less than 8hrs but thats another story.

To do the job right since the cover is off and not to half ass the job, this what I had done. replace both tensioners, both chain guides and both chains!! it makes no sense to have a new tight chain on one side and not the other. I would call bill jenkins and get all your gaskets and hard parts from ford if your buddy doesn't mind. My motor felt much tighter after, I'll warn you it isn't cheap but if you let it go it will do damage in time. I had my local ford dealer do mine they did some other stuff for me too while it was in there, I have done business withthem for years so I had no worries and it cost me $1,300 for all parts plus labor that included 2 chains, guides, tensioners, new plugs , seperntine belt, gaskets etc. not bad for a dealer and they did an awsome job.

also ditch the udp idea, no gain from it, if you must do the dual mass deal.

 

[muntus]

Sounds easier to rent a cherry picker and do a 3L.

 

[NiggShevik]

Skunk what you said sounds exactly like my prob. My guy gave me an estimate of up to 1100 for the whole job..So i'm gonna definitely bring this up to him. I dont see why i wouldn't do that at this point.

I had asked for a tune-up with this job so we'll see what happens. And yes it definitely doesn't make sense to have only one new chain. Thanks.

 

[skunk]

yeah he is right on the money it sounds like with his qoute. not far off from my job. Like i said my motor felt much tighter after. I'm pretty sure you are in the same boat I was in and that was the problem ,make sure you do both sides!! keep me posted and glad I could help.

 

[Kremithefrog]

I don't see why anyone would think you would get the top off the motor off, ps pump, alternator, front cover, tensioners, chains, giudes off back on retimed and everything back together in less than 8hrs but thats another story.

Well a good shop can definitely do it in under 8 hours. I wouldn't be surprised after the end of next week if I could do it all in under 8 but I don't care to find out.
If you got another car to drive, you could tackle it yourself. It's really not that bad, just time consuming. If you have a full 2 day weekend, it could easily be done in that time.
Our computer for some reason doesn't show the labor hours for it anymore but when it did, depending on year, it showed up to 12 hours.

 

[Aspenmeteor]

Help me too

Help me too

Just a quick question i have a rattle noise from my driver side?engine bay only when my car sits for a day. Only when i start it up for 3 seconds then i goes away. I was wanting to know if you think it might be time to replace my timing chain guides. Its a 2000 contour svt and it has 92,000 miles on it right now. i use mobil one 10W-30 full sythetic oil and a mototrcraft oil filter. I also race auto cross with it so thats why im freaked out. Some have told me its the guides are oil operated and only tighten up the chain when oil presure is present. Meaning my oil is receding into my oil filter? I dunno but all i know is it freaks me out and makes me wonder what the hell it is.
Thanks for the help dont mean to steal this thread!

 

[Kremithefrog]

The guides are just guides, they don't move. The tensioner arm moves when the tensioner makes it move, which is operated by oil pressure. If the sound truly is coming from the driver side then it wouldn't be the timing chain system. There's other things it can be, but I really wouldn't worry much if it only does it on a cold start for 3 seconds. Yeah it may be wearing things a little quicker, but when you start getting miles on a car, that kinda thing happens.

 

[Big Jim]

And you will have better cold start lubrication with 5W30, the oil the factory intended for that engine when it was built. 10W30 IS NOT A GOOD THING.

 

[Bradness]

And you will have better cold start lubrication with 5W30, the oil the factory intended for that engine when it was built. 10W30 IS NOT A GOOD THING.

Cold start lubrication? What about summer and/or using synthetics? I've run my 2.5's with 10-30 for over 10 yrs now. Admittedly, both my Tours were/are earlies. I also use a block heater ALL YEAR. What does Ford do differently-tighten up the bearing tolerances? My prior understanding was 5-30 was simply a method of squeezing some more CAFE mileage out seeing as how Ford sells so many trucks.

As I recall, the 3.0's specify 5W-30 and 1 of those will be going in my 96 soon...

 

[Kremithefrog]

5w-20 was a method for getting better CAFE mileage.
I run 10w-30 down here in the 90+ degree weather.

 

[BrApple]

in terms of time the estimates seem about right on ... it took aircougar and myself about 10 hours to swap cams and install headers on my car ... and we pulled the subframe also to make the work easier ...

 

[skunk]

Just a quick question i have a rattle noise from my driver side?engine bay only when my car sits for a day. Only when i start it up for 3 seconds then i goes away. I was wanting to know if you think it might be time to replace my timing chain guides. Its a 2000 contour svt and it has 92,000 miles on it right now. i use mobil one 10W-30 full sythetic oil and a mototrcraft oil filter. I also race auto cross with it so thats why im freaked out. Some have told me its the guides are oil operated and only tighten up the chain when oil presure is present. Meaning my oil is receding into my oil filter? I dunno but all i know is it freaks me out and makes me wonder what the hell it is.
Thanks for the help dont mean to steal this thread!

if you read my old posts from last year this how mine started out, the chain tensioners are hydrolic and when the are on the fritz they don't pump up or some crap. When I first started my car it made the noise then it went away, my car sat for a day or two and made the noise again upon start up.I had the car towed to the dealer, they started the car in front of me and it made the noise, they where just has puzzled has me at the time being that this wasn't a normal deal for these motors. they said they would look into it and call me. well the same thing happened, the tech went out to get the car and no noise, since it was just started, they tried to get it make a noise nothing, they called me and said they couldn't repeat it. I asked them to hold it overnight and try to start it later in the day, that's when it made the noise all over again and we decided to pull the valve covers revealing the loose chain they then pulled the front cover finding the bad tensioner.


that is how it starts, and it seems to be happening more. this may have to be a sticky.

 

[Big Jim]

Cold start lubrication? What about summer and/or using synthetics? I've run my 2.5's with 10-30 for over 10 yrs now. Admittedly, both my Tours were/are earlies. I also use a block heater ALL YEAR. What does Ford do differently-tighten up the bearing tolerances? My prior understanding was 5-30 was simply a method of squeezing some more CAFE mileage out seeing as how Ford sells so many trucks.

As I recall, the 3.0's specify 5W-30 and 1 of those will be going in my 96 soon...

The current mantra among the tribologists (lubrication engineers) is that no oil currently made is too thin for start-up and that most wear is during warm-up.

Down the road we will see even thinner oils. Think in terms of "slippery water".

CAFE (corporate average fuel economy) isn't the only driver for thinner oils. The realization that engines last longer when thinner oils are used and the engines are designed for it.

A synthetic with a low pour point isn't the entire solution. Thinner oil will deliver more oil to the bearings than heavy oil will while cold. The volume of oil means more than simply pressure. There must be enough oil to form a hydraulic wedge to float the crank off the bearings. Heavy oil relies on the viscosity alone to float the crank. It is better to have oil closer to the thickness it will be when hot with significant volume.

 

[Bradness]

if you read my old posts from last year this how mine started out, the chain tensioners are hydrolic and when the are on the fritz they don't pump up or some crap. When I first started my car it made the noise then it went away, my car sat for a day or two and made the noise again upon start up.I had the car towed to the dealer, they started the car in front of me and it made the noise, they where just has puzzled has me at the time being that this wasn't a normal deal for these motors. they said they would look into it and call me. well the same thing happened, the tech went out to get the car and no noise, since it was just started, they tried to get it make a noise nothing, they called me and said they couldn't repeat it. I asked them to hold it overnight and try to start it later in the day, that's when it made the noise all over again and we decided to pull the valve covers revealing the loose chain they then pulled the front cover finding the bad tensioner.


that is how it starts, and it seems to be happening more. this may have to be a sticky.

There was a TSB for 95 Duratecs about noisy timing chains on start up. As I recall, the fix was to install the revised 96+ hydraulic tensioners. My 95 had the noise from day 1 until it died after 250,000 kms. I tore the motor down and the only visible damage was that caused by a leaking head gasket.

 

[Aspenmeteor]

So would you say take it in. I do race auto-x and this is at times my daily driver. How much do you think its going to cost me to get this done at a ford dealership. Of do you think this is somthing that could be done by myself? Give me some feedback im interested in keeping my SVT ALIVE!

 

[NiggShevik]

I will reluctantly tell you what has happened with my car for the last month. As you know i started this thread....just before I took my 2000 CSVT to the shop. I took my car in 4 Thursdays ago from this Thursday. Yes you read correctly... my car has been in the shop for month.

I had initially brought it in because it was in need of a few things. There may have been more but it's been so long I have forgotten:

1) rattling/ticking/spinning noise which was thought to be the timing chains/tensioners.
2) rear struts needed some tightening and rear sway mount rewelded
3) stalling issue which has been with my car basically since ive had it
4) tune up

I've been calling every day and they've come up with a laundry list of excuses. I had not initially been told a deadline but I would have never imagined any kind of work could take anywhere close to this long. They have no excuses as far as I'm concerned. I'm trying to avoid paying for labor which I think is reasonable.

Anyway I called today and was told it was going to be done in 1-1.5 hours. I go in 2 hours later for pick up. I was very excited because it almost felt like I was getting a new car since I had basically gotten adjusted to not having one.

I get to the shop, my car is still on the rack with the hood up. A few minutes pass by of the manager being on the phone and he then gets another mechanic to come and put my car back together so I can take it home. The guy comes in and starts putting some bolts on and checks 'er out to make sure everything is in place.

Moment of truth....he starts the car and the ticking/rattling/spinning noise was as loud as it ever was if not louder.

What does that leave as the source of that noise?

The car is still together the last I saw it. If it is still together tomorrow morning should I take it elsewhere and tell this guy I'm only going to pay for parts and the other stuff? Should I even have to pay for any labor seeing as they've had my ride for a month?

 

[skunk]

I thought this guy was a friend, at first he sounded right on the money and someone who could fix the problem. man he took you for ride. he couldn't have done anything if the noise is still there or didn't look into it further. the sad part now is you are in a pickle not by your doing but buy this butt head, either you have to let him redo the job at his cost which at this point I wouldn't let him touch my car again or take it to a dealer because for the most part they are the best at messing with these motors and take him to small claims court for the repair bill if he wont cover the cost to repair it properly. this why I went ot the dealer, most small shops you can have stuff done suspension, exhaust etc. but getting into these motors I felt the dealer was the best choice or if you had a knowledgable ceger close buy. sorry you got screwed by someone it sounded like you trusted. keep us updated.