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Originally posted by Rishodi:
What I want to know is what the [censored] was wrong with the truck driver. Let's say his brakes went out. I'd run off the road and sacrifice my own life before running into a car full of people, or much less a school bus!  I think he deserves seven convictions of manslaughter.
I have a very stong feeling he feel asleep behind the wheel. 
Originally posted by Chickens:
Religion can't do much for ashholes (unless you are an alterboy)
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Originally posted by Pete D:
If the car had not been there, I also think less people would have died. The frame of a medium duty truck (school bus) is going to take a blow from a tractor trailer a lot better than a car...
The school bus' survivability is close to irrelevant. Even the secondary impact send the bus spinning 200ft down the road, tossing 3 occupants in the process, so regardless of how well the bus structure may hold up in the collision (i.e. not absorbing much impact energy), it doesn't matter if it's pirouetting down the road, scattering its contents about. There is no 'ideal' circumstance, except for there to have been no truck at all.
B. Riley
Melbourne, FL
'01 Camry LE V6/5-spd
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Before that: '95 Champ/Blue Contour GL V6 ATX
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Originally posted by Pete D:
Originally posted by sigma:
If they would have obeyed the law there just would have been an adult in the car to die too. It would have made no difference.
If they would have obeyed the law less people would have died, as they would have had the infant in a car seat and everyone would have a had a seatbelt, so there would have been less people in the car.
My comment was in reference to the being over 15 bit. But, yes, the rest of what you say is true.
Originally posted by Pete D:
If the car had not been there, I also think less people would have died. The frame of a medium duty truck (school bus) is going to take a blow from a tractor trailer a lot better than a car, not to mention the car wouldn't have been in the middle to cause a fireball.
I take it you haven't seen pictures of the accident?
The truck struck the Pontiac, pushing it into the bus, which immediately accordioned the Pontiac. It, literally, became part of the truck's engine compartment. Death was likely instantaneous. What didn't go into the truck flew over 200 feet. The car practically ceased to exist. Rescue personnel said that it was impossible to tell Semi-Truck from Bonneville and extrication of the bodies was near impossible. It then, embedded into the truck veered off to the right and off the road where it struck a massive tree hard enough to break the top half of it off.
The bus, totally seperate from the car and unaffected by any 'fireball', with several of its' rear rows compressed into nothingness, was pushed 200 feet down the road as it rotated on its' axis, went off the road, and impacted a tree.
As it was I believe it's 3 children on the school bus that are in critical condition and several more that are in serious condition (there's been varying reports on this). There can be virtually no argument that the car being there did anything but alleviate much of the impact the truck could have had on the bus. If the car had not been where it was, not only would a significant percentage of the momentum of the truck have not been absorbed, but the truck also wouldn't have veered sharply, affecting its' impact with the bus. The bus would have absored 100% of the force at dead-on its' rear. Instead of being pushed 200 feet due to a momentary impact, it would have been pushed several hundred feet at least as the truck embedded itself into the rear of the bus. And instead of a few rear rows being annhilated, the entire bus would have been crushed like an aluminum can.
This shouldn't be an argument of "if the car had not been there", it should be an argument of "if the truck had not been there. "There" being the same time and space as the car and bus.
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Originally posted by CNN:
The trucker was cited in 2000 for driving with a suspended license and twice, in 2000 and 2001, for operating a vehicle in unsafe condition, according to state officials.
I didn't know you can get a commercial license for a heavy semi with a record like that.
I think there should be at least a mandatory suspension period for the commercial DL after getting certain kind of tickets...
Does anybody know how does this work ?
On the other hand, 2 of my cousins work as truckers (not in this country though) and they are regularly put into situations like 'you make it there on time or you're fired', and they often have inhuman deadlines.
They know if anything happens (and sooner or later it does) it's gonna be their responsibility. Well, it's their decision.
I'm in no way want to defend the trucker in this case - it's 7 times manslaughter, no question about that.
Tiv
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Originally posted by sigma:
If the car had not been where it was, not only would a significant percentage of the momentum of the truck have not been absorbed, but the truck also wouldn't have veered sharply, affecting its' impact with the bus. The bus would have absored 100% of the force at dead-on its' rear. Instead of being pushed 200 feet due to a momentary impact, it would have been pushed several hundred feet at least as the truck embedded itself into the rear of the bus.
Actually, a car of any size would absorb very little of the momentum of a full size 18-wheeler going at a high speed, hardly a "significant percentage". The car being there was pretty insignificant in regards to stopping the truck.
If you want figures... let's assume the truck weighs 60,000 pounds and was going 60 mph, and the car was 4,000 pounds. We don't know exactly how much the truck weighed, but even a truck with an empty trailer weighs well over 40,000 pounds, and the gross weight limit is about 80,000 so the median is a good estimte. Using those assumptions, then after impact, the car and truck lodged together, and were still going over 56 mph. The car absorbed about 6% of the truck's momentum.
Just think about it... at the moment of impact, the truck decelerated a tad, and the car simultaneously accelerated to 56 mph almost instantaneously, and subsequently smashed into the bus. I don't even want to calculate how much G-force that would be... poor kids. 
It may or may not be true that the truck then collided directly with the bus. However, the bus would in no circumstance have absorbed 100% of the momentum of the truck, given the fact that the truck still weighs at least twice as much a school bus. Had the truck and car also been embedded into the back of the bus, it would not have traveled 200 feet, but in fact would have gone a much lesser distance.
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I will only add the most school buses do not have seat belts. So if the truck had hit the bus at full speed, you would have ended up with many more dead than the 7. And most likely there would have been many serious injuries including being parilized. The kids would have hit the roof or rolled down the center row.
No matter how you look at this, it was a terrible accident. People would have been killed either way. If an adult was driving, then only maybe 5 would be dead, at this point it really does not matter.
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Where are you getting Bonneville from, sigma? Everything I read indicated it was a van, meaning TransSport or Montana.
Though, at least it it was a Bonneville, it had a chance of seating 8 legally in the Bonneville Grand Safari wagon.
Brad "Diva": 2004 Mazda 6s 5-door, Volcanic Red
Rex: 1988 Mazda RX-7 Vert, Harbor Blue.
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