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3L this winter

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greasemonkey1489

Hard-core CEG'er
Joined
Apr 14, 2008
Messages
1,568
Location
Bloomington/Normal, IL
I would like to put a 3L in my car and I have read through countless 3L builds. So I'm trying to put together some price figures and ideas but I need some advice:

-I know I should look for a 04 and up taurus/sable motor
-I would like to port-match and use SVT UIM
-SO should I keep SVT cams for this setup?
-If I used SVT heads, what are pros and cons?
-I will prob never have any forced induction
-Do I need a LSD, I do little performance driving? What about a Zetec final drive?
-I Plan to keep the stock flywheel, headers, new OEM clutch etc. I just want a little more of a kick and trying to stay within $1500

Edit: Will I need to get it tuned? or Will it run o.k. on the SVT ECU?

Let the comments begin..
 
greasemonkey1489 said:
I would like to put a 3L in my car and I have read through countless 3L builds. So I'm trying to put together some price figures and ideas but I need some advice:

-I know I should look for a 04 and up taurus/sable motor
-I would like to port-match and use SVT UIM
-SO should I keep SVT cams for this setup?
-If I used SVT heads, what are pros and cons?
-I will prob never have any forced induction
-Do I need a LSD, I do little performance driving? What about a Zetec final drive?
-I Plan to keep the stock flywheel, headers, new OEM clutch etc. I just want a little more of a kick and trying to stay within $1500

Edit: Will I need to get it tuned? or Will it run o.k. on the SVT ECU?

Let the comments begin..
Click to expand...
For the motor you are looking at about $500 for a lower mileage motor.
If you are port matching it you won't need a tune. I would use the SVT Cams too, especially if you don't plan on a FI system later. Use the 3L heads, I've heard they have less of a chance of oil starvation. You don't NEED a LSD, but imagine being done with the build, all excited, you end up driving it a little hard and then you blow stock diff. That would SUCK! If you do end up getting a LSD, your build will not be under $1500 for sure.
So far I've spent about a grand on my trans and thats not including a clutch or flywheel. I decided I didn't want a zetec FD. I don't do enough highway driving, but you might. That's all I have, I'm only a year into owning this car, let some of the vets chime in.
 
I would nearly say a LSD is a must, I'd imagine youd peel out on accident with the ammount of power a 3l gives ya.

I went with a full 3l build, however with that you will need a tune. Its not on option. That set me back $500 alone, but I recouped some of the money selling the SVT cams LIM UIM TB and such.

I enjoy the 3l cams but I also enjoy the SVT cams as well, just depends on how you want your power, up top or mid range. Both are fun I just didn't want to spin my 3l past 7k.

I don't know if a zetec FD ratio is necessary for you, if your going SVT cammed 3l you might want the extra gearing. I think a full 3l could definetly use the zetec gear, as I have to shift pretty frequently when I'm gunning it.

I also recommend headers as well, they arn't too expensive and you'll want to install them while the engine is out. Better to do it now then later.
 
Nezerconezer said:
I would nearly say a LSD is a must, I'd imagine youd peel out on accident with the ammount of power a 3l gives ya.

I went with a full 3l build, however with that you will need a tune. Its not on option. That set me back $500 alone, but I recouped some of the money selling the SVT cams LIM UIM TB and such.

I enjoy the 3l cams but I also enjoy the SVT cams as well, just depends on how you want your power, up top or mid range. Both are fun I just didn't want to spin my 3l past 7k.

I don't know if a zetec FD ratio is necessary for you, if your going SVT cammed 3l you might want the extra gearing. I think a full 3l could definetly use the zetec gear, as I have to shift pretty frequently when I'm gunning it.

I also recommend headers as well, they arn't too expensive and you'll want to install them while the engine is out. Better to do it now then later.
Click to expand...

Well.. that's what I was afraid of- having to buy a $500 LSD. That def. changes the price.. I would do the headers, but is it worth the money and time trying to eliminate CELs?

So is the redline between 6750 and 8000 like the 2.5L? Isn't the bore just larger to make it a 3.0?

I do occasional highway driving, so I guess I don't need the zetec FD.

Philly- how have you spent almost 1K on your tranny??

I don't shift very high, I enjoy being able to pull away quickly and still keep rpms low. So should I use 3L cams?
 
greasemonkey1489 said:
-I know I should look for a 04 and up taurus/sable motor
-I would like to port-match and use SVT UIM
-SO should I keep SVT cams for this setup?
-If I used SVT heads, what are pros and cons?
-I will prob never have any forced induction
-Do I need a LSD, I do little performance driving? What about a Zetec final drive?
-I Plan to keep the stock flywheel, headers, new OEM clutch etc. I just want a little more of a kick and trying to stay within $1500

Edit: Will I need to get it tuned? or Will it run o.k. on the SVT ECU?
Click to expand...

1. Technically, 01+ VIN S. But, I would be aiming for 04+ since they are available.

2. Easy enough with the proper tools. This is my prefered method. Keeps things 'stock' looking and I find trouble shooting them easier.

3. Based on the way you say you typically drive, just keep the 3L cams. One less thing to worry about, especially if you rarely wind out the gears.

4. Ditch the SVT heads. Just port match the 3L heads. If you were to keep the SVT heads your compression would be pretty high, greater than stock SVT. Also would have to spring for new head gaskets, and associated fasteners. No real benefit to keeping them in my opinion. They would require the blocking of some coolant passages on the 3L block too.

5. LSD is highly recomended. The SVT diffs get killed by stock svt 2.5s. With the increased TQ from the 3L that becomes even more likly. Now, you can go without, but you must drive like a granny. LOL. Zetec final drive would be nice, but for the increased cost, i wouldnt consider it for your proposed build. Those dollars could be better spend elsewhere.

6. Do the headers while the motor is out. They are relatively inexpensive and easy to install at this point. Getting rid of the CEL is easy with MIL eliminators. I can help you with those.

7. Tuning is also recomended. You will be able to drive around and see many benefits without one, but I would put it on the to-do list.
 
done properly would be an 04/05 intake setup, and stock cams. tuning is cruical.

check my sig....... you want a full 3L.
 
bahhhhh i've done both setups. i like both, i however have dyno sheets to prove its better. however, to each his own!
 
Yeah a full sounds great and all but I really want to keep the SVT UIM for sure. Almost like a "Sleeper" SVT- to the untrained eye, there would be no way to tell there's a 3L under there. Besides, I'm not out to race people, nor will I EVER make it to a drag strip and hell a Dyno would mean nothing to me either. I just want to accelerate and feeeeel it. Maybe peel a little rubber now and then.. :crazy:
 
Almost no one other then a contour guy will be able to tell its been modded. If you do a clean install it looks like it was factory.
 
greasemonkey1489 said:
Yeah a full sounds great and all but I really want to keep the SVT UIM for sure. Almost like a "Sleeper" SVT- to the untrained eye, there would be no way to tell there's a 3L under there. Besides, I'm not out to race people, nor will I EVER make it to a drag strip and hell a Dyno would mean nothing to me either. I just want to accelerate and feeeeel it. Maybe peel a little rubber now and then.. :crazy:
Click to expand...

THe SVT UIM flows horrible compaired to the 3.0L.
 
greasemonkey1489 said:
Philly- how have you spent almost 1K on your tranny??
Click to expand...

-Torsen with seals and bearings-$580 shipped
-Input (Front), Input (Rear), Output (Front; Grooved), Output (Rear; Ungrooved) -$135 shipped
-Shift forks- $100 shipped
-Shipping and install- $340

All adds up to: $1155 So I guess I have more in it that I thought.

Hopefully I don't need to replace any syncros.
 
PHilly said:
I'd like to see a back to back comparison with a 3L UIM and SVT UIM+nautilus lower( just so the engine wouldn't need porting). Where do you get that conclusion from?
Click to expand...

Intake manifold cfm flow
SVT = 182 cfm
Max EH - 198 cfms
Taurus 01 - 210 cfms
Taurus o4 = 223 cfms
st220 = 236 or 238 cfms
 
wow, I dont really know where to start here.

I'm with tricker 100% about the full swap

if your planning to do the work yourself, I've done two full swaps for under 1500, granted, the first engine was crap, but live and learn. my current engine was under 50K, rated "A", and came with a warranty. it cost me about 300 bucks. be very selective in your search for the engine, as a good bottom end is key.

if you like dead stop, low end torque, 60ft monster cars, keep the 04 3.0 cams and the 4.06's, that is the perfect set up for ruining expensive tires and getting from one stop sign to the next in a massive hurry. if thios is the plan, a torsen is a MUST!!!!!!!!!!!!,wait is that enough exclamation? NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

if you would like to hit 110 in less than 25 minutes, I'd suggest the zetec final and the svt cams, I now wish I had gone with the svt cams as I tend to be more of a wangun guy. it's nice to know you can dust exotics if need be. thats just me though.

headers are a good investment while the engine is out, but they definately dont do all that much for what your talking about. for you, I'd gut the precats and shove some mil-eliminators in, tada, problem solved.

a fairly good tune is a must. you can pick up a great deal on an X2 on e-bay if you have patience, but if you dont, expedct to hand about 400 to joey to get your 3.0 on the road. if you go full swap, use the 3.0 injectors. this WILL REQUIRE A TUNE, but its just silly to try and run the 2.5 injectors at 110% and WITH THE WRONG SPRAY PATTERN! so count on needing a tune. even if you go for a port match, I'd still get it tuned. TUNE TUNE TUNE, got the concept? if you just want to get it final tuned all ion one step, save the money for the X2/3 ect and just let a shop do it right the first time. if your in a hurry and want it close soon, get the SCT and let joey set you up a decent base tune. this is what I'm on right now, and it's ok, but not awesome or even as good as stock. a uego and a wideband and you can data log it though, and you'll be good to go with a mail order tune, so keep that in mind.

also do something about your RR's, either pay pole, or do the diy way, wheel hop is the end of a stock diff, and isn't very good for anything in general.

so, in conclusion:

300-400 for a good 04+ engine

600 for an lsd

40 for mil-eliminators

300 for a descent clutch

400-600 for a tune

maybe 100 for poly rr's

200 in fuel system mods

300 in unexpected costs (welding wire, gaskets, super black, ect ect)
 
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