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HELP!!! Timing chain broke????

X

xtascox

Hard-core CEG'er
Joined
Sep 13, 2007
Messages
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Location
Philadelphia, PA
Woke up this morning(christmas morning) and when I went to start the 'stique I heard the timing chain snap(90% sure thats what it is, we'll see) and no start. Its behaving exactly like when the timing chain in my gf's car snapped. How hard to fix it with the motor in the car? I just got the uim off and I am hoping I can do it. I have a week. What do you guys think?

P.S. And Marry Christmas Everyone!! Hopefully nobody got a Christmas gift like this!

****EDIT****
Determined not to be a timing component and now checking starter as I believe it is not turning the engine enough to start it.
 
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I spent the past hour crawling the forums and found that my problem may be the timing chain tensioner. Has anyone experienced changing it? I have had the rattling on start up since not too long after I got the car over a year ago.
 
a rattle for a few seconds on start up is completely normal. this is oil pressure building up in the tensioners, but it should only last for a few seconds.

to change a tensioner you need to pull the intake, valve covers, alternator and the front cover to get to the tensioners. It can be done in car but isn't that much fun.
 
Since you'll end up pulling the valve covers you might as well pull them off first and scope it out ;) Then you'll be able to look for problems before digging further.
 
Also, dont forget you have to remove the oil pan, a couple bolts from the oil pan mount into the front cover.

I just pulled my timing components Christmas morning. Pulled the timing chains, guides and tensioners. Not hard, but getting everything else apart takes time.

Getting the alternator out took some time, long extensions and swivel adapter help a lot.

After pulling the valve covers you will be able to took down the front cover and see the timing components and see if something is broke or out of place.
 
Although it would not explain the noise, you may have a flooded engine, causing a loss in compression so the engine cranks rapidly and will not light up.

If this is what happened, you can often get it to start by cranking with the throttle held wide open, shutting of the injectors. In more extreme cases, pull the front three plugs and squirt in a about a teaspoon or two of oil to bring compression back, reinstall the plugs and try again to start it. If this works, it will run rough for a moment until the compression comes back in the three rear cylinders.

This seems to happen in cold weather, or when the weather first turns cold. It usually happens after a cold start followed by a shut down before the engine stabilized. Like moving the car out of the garage and then trying to start it again after a few minutes.
 
Thanks guys. We started on it today and the next step is to remove the valve covers. I will inspect everything thoroughly before moving on and removing the alternator and front cover. At least I'll get to fix my two oil leaks in the process (valve cover and oil pan) and clean the LIM and head ports and install new injector O rings. I'm hoping to extend the life of the motor so I can get a quality 3 liter build going. I'll post up any updates as things happen. I am going slowly since I have till the 2nd and I don't want to start getting sloppy with the work.

As for the engine being flooded, I tried the WOT method when it first happened. You could hear the starter but the motor wasn't cranking at all. The exact same thing happened to my girlfriend's Kia when it died one day. Hers was the chain, I'm hoping for me it's just the tensioner. Might as well throw in a new alternator while I'm in there!
 
IF you do the alt make sure it is a Motorcraft reman. Otherwise you will be doing it again very soon. I put on a new one and it had pulsation issues with the lights and didn't run right. It was supposed to be a 130amp unit. I took that one back and got the Motorcraft reman one and it is ok. Not perfect as it still has very slight pulsation issues below 1k rpms.

My 2 cents

Happy New Year,
AF
 
Update:
Earlier I got the front valve cover off and everything on that side looks 100% ok. The chain felt snug with no sign of too much slack. From what I could see it was fine all the way down although the timing mark on the chain looks to be misaligned to the gear wheel (I'll play with that another day). Tomorrow(actually later today) I'm pulling the rear valve cover. If the chain tensioner went on either side is there anything I should be looking for up top? I don't want to pull the alt and the front cover if there's nothing wrong down there even though I already bought the gasket.

While doing all this work I decided on a few other things that should get done while I'm in there. I'm doing new plugs and wires since one of my wires is worn through the outer insulation on a small part. The plugs look ok, but with the old wires I don't want to take a chance of them being bad and ruining a new set of wires plus I never gapped them since they were supposed to be pre-gapped. New injector O-rings are a must and everything is going to be squeaky clean. Also might do an upgraded metal water pump. I'm considering new valve springs unless its a bigger job than it looks (anyone have any input?:help:). If anyone can think of anything else that I should do while I have her torn down please tell me.

Hell, by the time I'm done with this I won't even need a 3 liter. Might as well throw in some headers while I'm at it. I'll borrow my dads maroon (he hates if I call it purple:crazy:) mini-van to get to and from class/work.

*Edit*
Again, thanks for everyone's input so far and for Dan(DanMyers) helping me pull the LIM and for his soon to be help of pulling the alternator.
 
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BrApple said:
a rattle for a few seconds on start up is completely normal. this is oil pressure building up in the tensioners, but it should only last for a few seconds.
Click to expand...

Just caught this. The rattling actually would sometimes continue for a few minutes or until I restarted the car multiple times and it was a sickening sound that sounded more like a rattling grinding if you know what I mean. So I guess it was a warning of the daunting future that now lies at my feet.:nonono:
 
Don't forget that you'll also have to pull the crank pulley to get the front cover off. It's a Torque To Yield bolt, so you'll be needing a new one for that. You should also replace the crank seal at that time too.

If you've been hearing something rattling around, I would pull the oil pan next and have a look. Be sure to check the screen on the oil pump pick up tube for any debris and underneath the tray in the oil pan.
 
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Plugs are NEVER pre-gapped. ALWAYS check the gap before installing. Even if the plug maker intends them to be pre-gapped, they may not be gapped for your engine. Plugs fit more than one application.

I don't see how valve springs are on your radar. The factory springs exceed the need when run with stock cams, including the SVT cams.
 
Big Jim said:
Plugs are NEVER pre-gapped. ALWAYS check the gap before installing. Even if the plug maker intends them to be pre-gapped, they may not be gapped for your engine. Plugs fit more than one application.
Click to expand...

Yea I learned that after I put them in a while back and never had the time until now to do anything about it.

Something I was thinking this morning. Could this in any way be flywheel related? I remember reading a thread where the starter and the flywheel could sometimes make bad contact ultimately causing the starter to turn but not the engine? When I was trying to start her when it first happened, it seemed if I let it sit for a while the motor would turn for a split second then it went back to the sound of just what sounds like the starter with no engine movement. I don't know how that would explain the continued rattling after startup though.:confused:
 
Quick question. Is it SAFE to turn the ignition with the valve covers and LIM off, and injectors unplugged just to see whats turning and whats not? Hopefully without full running everywhere from the fuel rail. Coilpack, plugs and wires are all out obviously too. Also keep in mind I haven't touched the timing at all so I don't know if its right or not. I'm just trying to avoid removing the front cover as much as possible and this seems like I would get a good view of what's working.
 
as soon as you turn the key on, the fuel pump will prime. The best way to deal with that is to remove power from the fuel pump.

The timing for these motors rarely, if ever actually, goes wrong on it's own. If it was running before, it's almost guaranteed to be still be dead on.
 
69Boss302 said:
as soon as you turn the key on, the fuel pump will prime. The best way to deal with that is to remove power from the fuel pump.

The timing for these motors rarely, if ever actually, goes wrong on it's own. If it was running before, it's almost guaranteed to be still be dead on.
Click to expand...

Ok so shut the fuel switch off or remove fuse and I should be ok? If a timing component went as I am suspecting so far, should the timing still be in order?

And then everything else is ok then to turn the ignition correct? I don't want to screw up anything by doing this.
 
I turned the ignition today and had my dad watch everything. The valves, pistons, timing chains, belts, and cams are all moving like they should be. Next move is to order a new set of wires and plugs. In the meantime I will do a compression test on all cylinders and double check the rear chain when I finally get that valve cover off to make sure it didn't jump a link or two. I'm starting to think this may be either a lack of spark OR fuel delivery related and NOT what I originally thought.

I also remember that the rattling came more from the water pump side than the timing side, so its possible the water pump could have been causing it. Although the sound never came UNTIL the engine fully turned over.
 
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The waterpump is driven from the cam alone, so if it were to make any noise, it wouldn't be until the motor is running.

I doubt that your chain has jumped any teeth. As I said before it would be extremely, extremely rare for that to happen with these motors.
 
69Boss302 said:
The waterpump is driven from the cam alone, so if it were to make any noise, it wouldn't be until the motor is running.

I doubt that your chain has jumped any teeth. As I said before it would be extremely, extremely rare for that to happen with these motors.
Click to expand...

So looks like I need to check for a spark on every wire, and do the compression test. Chances are that it was in fact that somehow the motor flooded and I didn't give it enough of a chance to start before I tore it down. BUT this is not a bad thing being that there was oil on two of the plugs on the rear of the engine and the valve cover gasket needs to be desperately changed. I will have something to drive by Tuesday at the latest so I'm seriously considering ordering some MSDS headers and saying screw my future plans of a 3 liter for now. But definitely going to order a metal waterpump, Ford Racing Wires from BAT, some new autolite double platinums (will gap correctly this time) from NAPA, a new O2 sensor for bank 1, and I'll do oil change, tranny fluid change, and coolant change.

I have a question though. What are those channel like grooves in the tubes where the plugs go? There are signs of oil accumulated there where the oil was on the plugs.
 
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