recommendations for performance chip

[Tex]

your right mr tex-mex, joey is an ass bag, go tell him that yourself... [/sarcasm]

I'm speaking from my personal experience and the fact that nobody here I can think of has had an issue with his/NPG's work.

but obviously, since you fought in the alamo, you know lots and lots about programing and electronics.

want to back your mouth up with graphs? or will george dub come to my door and show me himself? because folks from texas are obviously good with numbers....

*ehem, economy, ehem*

I'm not even going to start... I didn't say anything about Joey, now did I? Also, AFAIK, Tom was the master tuner until he went overseas and Joey took over those responsibilities. If I absolutely despised NPG, why would I have their CAI on my car and direct the OP to their site? And for your information, yes I am good with numbers, and if you want to go into the economy, Texas's economy is currently ranked first in the nation. Furthermore, you apparently don't know everybody here then...

Why don't you show us that scan of your high school transcript that you keep in your wallet, again. Then, maybe you can whine to us all about how you're "super poor" and getting evicted.

I was being sarcastic, I love NPG, it's mister Tex over there that was insinuating their tunes wouldn't put numbers down.

thanks for the backup though.

I never said that your car wouldn't "put numbers down," but just throwing out 20 hp there is a pretty big ASSumption, given that you have basically zero performance mods besides that motor. Are you even running an SVT PCM?

Hell, look at it this way, the most powerful N/A Contour to date only makes about 75 more WHP than a stock SVT, so saying that you would gain 1/4 to 1/3 of that with JUST a tune, and having no headers, 65mm TB, CAI, upgraded y-pipe, free-flowing cat-back, etc. to build on, is probably unlikely.

It's not like the G8 world where I can pickup 37 WHP (on a Mustang Dyno, no less) with a tune and ZERO supporting mods, STILL on 87 octane.

I think his comment was more about your power gain guess than their products and services.

Correct.

Making a claim about other peoples claims isnt much better though. Some dyno slips showing those gains from the same mods and tune would trump everything.

Also correct.

 

[KAOS_3.0]

sorry, guess I misunderstood you. I thought you were knocking joey's tuning skills.

for performance I've got a flowmaster axel back, SVT/K&N intake with a home made (ghetto) cold air snorkle to the front bumper, pole RR, the correct injectors, 04 long block (more lift), and a X3/base tune from NPG.

since according to standard consumer reviews, the 04 taurus duratec puts down 201hp, I'd guess with the base tune and the typical rice mods on it, it might be making around 204/205 hp at the crank, but thats only a guess. I dont feel the need to dyno the car untill I get a t2, wide band, and the data logged performance tune.

what exactly do you think the improvement would be with a svt pcm when either one would still be reflashed with the same tune?

 

[starjammir]

your right mr tex-mex, joey is an ass bag, go tell him that yourself... [/sarcasm]

I'm speaking from my personal experience and the fact that nobody here I can think of has had an issue with his/NPG's work.

but obviously, since you fought in the alamo, you know lots and lots about programing and electronics.

want to back your mouth up with graphs? or will george dub come to my door and show me himself? because folks from texas are obviously good with numbers....

*ehem, economy, ehem*

Actually I have a few issues with their tuning. I got a tune from them originally and my car would not run right and was getting 14 MPG IN THE CITY and 17mpg ON THE HIGHWAY! Prior to the tune I was getting 24MPG City and 27 HWY. The idle on the car was terrible. It felt like it was going to die because it was starving for fuel. Car began to run better but not perfect by any means after several attempts and then was still getting 17mpg. I was told that this was normal because I have a gutted lower intake and more air=more fuel needed...but getting 17mpg? Did not seem right to me. So I parked the car for 7 months because I was tired of getting bad mileage and it was getting close to winter and I do not winter drive my car. I then paid them again to retune it and it was then running peg lean on idle and peg rich at WOT. I again datalogged the car a few times and finally gave up. Sent it down to another CEGer who does tuning and he had it 45 minutes and got it tuned awesome for me. Huge difference in power now and gas milage went up also. If you want the guy who did the tuning for me PM me and I will be more than happy to help you out with him. Also, if you want my mod list you will see that its not a very hard car to tune either.

 

[Tex]

I should mention that when I had a gutted big-bore LIM, I saw no decrease in fuel mileage, and I was getting 23 MPG in the city.

 

[KAOS_3.0]

thats really odd, was this a really long time ago? did you have the right injectors in it? did you tell them to delete the imrc in the tune? any other irregularities that may have been caused by miscommunication?

 

[starjammir]

It was last year. Nope I know my mod list and they knew it. I ALWAYS send it two times. Just was not working for me at all. I was almost ready to just delete the tune from the car because it was pretty bad. I was tired of datalogging and getting no results from it.

 

[Tex]

want to back your mouth up with graphs?

I don't have any paper copies from after the car was tuned but here is one from before it was tuned.

for performance I've got a flowmaster axel back, SVT/K&N intake with a home made (ghetto) cold air snorkle to the front bumper, pole RR, the correct injectors, 04 long block (more lift), and a X3/base tune from NPG.

Flowmaster AXLE back is probably doing less for you than stock SVT exhaust. SVT/K&N ghetto setup is basically nothing considering that all of these cars/numbers that you're comparing to will most likely already have that setup to begin with. A RR does not do anything to make power :help:. I would hope that you would have the correct injectors this time, or you'd be making less than that 201 BHP anyways. It's impossible to tell how much your base tune will gain on your setup, but not being familiar with NPG's base tunes, I'd say it could be good for maybe 10 HP. :shrug:

I have three tunes, and I will say that the difference between my mild tune and my aggressive timing tune is extremely significant. Mild runs a 10.6 AFR and Aggressive is an 11.2-11.8 AFR with more timing obviously.

 

[KAOS_3.0]

I've got to stop osting drunk, is dont even remember sayin "wanna back your mouth up", haha. I'm guessing that had something to do with IRL folks pissing me off. 196 at the wheels is pretty nice.

I know the axel back isn't greate, but it is 2.5" going into a 3" deltaflow, so it's not more restrictive than a pair of restrictive type mufflers. I will not put duals on, as I want to keep it where you cant tell it from a zetec outside. I slo hate the sound of straigt through mufflers, too much rasp and not enough bass for my ears. I get a lot of compliments on the sound, it sort of sounds like a quiet harley, lots of bass and a nice burbley sound. do need headers and a cougar single trubendz though. also need to get a bigg ass cat, and replace the resonator, I'm working on the research side of that, as you know. I like to think something to death before even starting to buy stuff. on the intake side, once again, that is temporary, but I'm scared to spend a bunch on intake stuff and then buy a vortec SC, and have to ditch it. I like how the svt box will work to hide a pipe from the fender if I want to go that way, as you should know, I'm aiming for a very deceptive set up. I cheat @ racing...

 

[Tex]

I was more impressed with 219 WTQ. Who says true hybrids make no torque? :laugh:


I'm not knocking your setup, just pointing out that if you're comparing gains on these other cars (95% of which are probably SVTs), you've got to consider what you're starting with vs. what they have on you coming out of the gate to begin with.

 

[KAOS_3.0]

noted, I do believe my exhaust is less restrictive than stock svt though, although a magnaflow dual setup is obviously superior performance wise.

I think I'll go lay under the front of my car for an hour now trying to think of a better way to use the space the current cat is in to get a more even exhaust pulse.

you think the resonator cation is still close enough for a big cat to be effective against a sniffer there? I'm also trying to remain 50 state legal for emissions. right now, it will pass in cali if I want it to.

 

[starjammir]

I have a 2.25 cat back on my car and 220/200 aint bad for 2 years ago. Im hoping for a little more this year though:shrug:

 

[beyondloadedSE]

If you're stock there isnt much point. The tune is for when you add parts like intake or exhaust and want the computer to know the mods are there so it can take advantage of them.

I personally disagree. I really don't think it matters whether the car is tuned before or afterwards if your doing a mail order tune. MAF reads air input, injectors give fuel output. Whether you tune before or afterwards the amount of air the engine pulls into the engine will be the same. The MAF has no idea you have added mods. All it sees is a voltage.

 

[KAOS_3.0]

while that is true, the MAF isn't doing anything to alter the timing in accordance, and it also isn't changing the fuel trim tables for the given MAF voltage.

I still think the OP needs to get back in here and let us know if he has an svt, just an svt pcm added to an otherwise stock 2.5 se engine will produce almost stock SVT numbers.

to me, all of this polishing/extrude honing/CAI/catback/ect is just rice untill the engine is running close enough to max output for a given displacement for those minute differences to matter.

if it is an svt, then the stock tune is probably better than any mail order tune, only way to improve would be to dyno tune it, since ford obviousley didn't dyno tune every car that rolled off the line, and minute differences in hardware might result in a HP or two difference.

I think too many people have "learned" about engine upgrades from GT2/GTAMW/tokyo racerX/ect, and ricer mags aimed primarily at generating sales of products that only add power to the butt dyno.

we really need to know what sort of hardware is on his car before we can really help with software advice. you wouldn't install vista on a computer with 512 DDR1...

 

[starjammir]

while that is true, the MAF isn't doing anything to alter the timing in accordance, and it also isn't changing the fuel trim tables for the given MAF voltage.

The MAF is used to determine the mass of air which is entering an electronically fuel-injected engine. The information is necessary for the engine control unit to calculate the correct fuel mass to the engine. The air changes its density as it expands and contracts with temperature as well as pressure. Therefore, I believe the MAF does count for a bunch of the tuning for the car from just about everything.

I still think the OP needs to get back in here and let us know if he has an svt, just an svt pcm added to an otherwise stock 2.5 se engine will produce almost stock SVT numbers.

What? Where did you hear this? I think if this was the case, all the SE owners would run the SVT PCM and be running with the SVT's down the road.

to me, all of this polishing/extrude honing/CAI/catback/ect is just rice untill the engine is running close enough to max output for a given displacement for those minute differences to matter.

What is the max output of the engine? You are saying that you dont feel that any of that stuff will help out on a stock car? I even felt gains on my atx mystique with just a few bolt ons. SVT wouldn't have added the additional cost of the EH UIM, bigger LIM, bigger TB, etc. if they did nothing.

if it is an svt, then the stock tune is probably better than any mail order tune, only way to improve would be to dyno tune it, since ford obviousley didn't dyno tune every car that rolled off the line, and minute differences in hardware might result in a HP or two difference.

Depending on the mod list and the tuner it can make a huge difference. I personally feel that the best way to get a tune is to dyno tune it then take it on the street and drive for a little and do the fine tuning on the road.

I think too many people have "learned" about engine upgrades from GT2/GTAMW/tokyo racerX/ect, and ricer mags aimed primarily at generating sales of products that only add power to the butt dyno.

Not even going to touch this one. :nonono:

we really need to know what sort of hardware is on his car before we can really help with software advice. you wouldn't install vista on a computer with 512 DDR1...

No idea about this one, as I know really nothing about computers.

 

[Tex]

while that is true, the MAF isn't doing anything to alter the timing in accordance, and it also isn't changing the fuel trim tables for the given MAF voltage.

I still think the OP needs to get back in here and let us know if he has an svt, just an svt pcm added to an otherwise stock 2.5 se engine will produce almost stock SVT numbers.

to me, all of this polishing/extrude honing/CAI/catback/ect is just rice untill the engine is running close enough to max output for a given displacement for those minute differences to matter.

if it is an svt, then the stock tune is probably better than any mail order tune, only way to improve would be to dyno tune it, since ford obviousley didn't dyno tune every car that rolled off the line, and minute differences in hardware might result in a HP or two difference.

I think too many people have "learned" about engine upgrades from GT2/GTAMW/tokyo racerX/ect, and ricer mags aimed primarily at generating sales of products that only add power to the butt dyno.

we really need to know what sort of hardware is on his car before we can really help with software advice. you wouldn't install vista on a computer with 512 DDR1...

Ummm...no. Here, why don't you check out BrApple's page on FCO with his dynos as he modded the car a bit at a time-

http://www.fordcontour.org/index.php?&autocom=registry&cmd=view_item&CID=121

Key notes-

Dyno results:
-SZ06 - w/previous mods
- plus SVT LIM, UIM, optimized TB
- 151 fwhp, 151 ft-lbs torque
- Dyno Jet - SAE corrected

- May 07 - w/previous mods
- plus SVT PCM and injectors
- 156 fwhp, 148 ft-lbs torque
-Dyno Jet - SAE Corrected

Picked up 5 whp, and lost 3 WTQ. With the stock SVT PCM over the stock SE PCM.

 

[KAOS_3.0]

sorry, heard the svt pcm info on fco, guess your right, I need to delete all of that info from my brain then. I know the main reason people dont switch pcms is because of compatibility with the pats system, and the fact that most svt pcms available dont come with keys. of course, you cold go to the ford dealer, and spend the cost of an xcal for them to reflash it for your key, then again, the svt pcm probably cost you as much as a tune as well....

I do know that "felt" gains are not always real, as stated with my "butt dyno" comment.

but you guys know that louder=faster, so I must be an idiot. [/sarcasm]

 

[Tex]

but you guys know that louder=faster, so I must be an idiot. [/sarcasm]

Starjammir's car has the same exhaust as mine, minus cat. His is much louder...but it didn't prove to be faster... :laugh: Maybe he should ask for a refund?

 

[KAOS_3.0]

my point exactly...

 

[starjammir]

Starjammir's car has the same exhaust as mine, minus cat. His is much louder...but it didn't prove to be faster... :laugh: Maybe he should ask for a refund?

:nonono: Bringing back bad memories for me roberto

 

[Harrry]

roberto

:laugh: