Alternative LCA - I'm ready ...

[Heywood]

for you guys to lay into me, but I had this idea a while ago, and with the group buy being put out there it brought me back to this.

The problem with the existing arms is that they are bolted vertically, when the articulation should be horizontal.
My thought was to develop a bracket that would bolt into the stock location on the subframe, and have 2 horizontal bushings(?) to attach a revised arm.

I see 2 possible issues with this and I don't know whether either would kill it.

1. It offsets the pivot point by an inch or 2 closer to the hub
2. The subframe bracket would have to fit tight and not flex (too much).

I guess third, it might end up being ridiculously expensive, but probably not too much more than tubular arms?

 

[Heywood]

Here's a really crappy sketch

 

[striker2]

or you can just swap to a 4-bolt LCA subframe. :shrug: the bushings in the LCAs are horizontal and the arm pivots on the bushings, even though the bolts are still vertical.

 

[muntus]

What are you trying to address? Wheel hop, or do you just want something custom?

 

[bensenvill]

what your talking about is exactly what the 4bolt style arms are.

the 4bolters were on the early contours [CEG gurus feel free to correct my tour info]
then they switched to the 2 bolters
and then at the tail end of production went back to the 4-bolt

the cougars started as 2 bolt and the final ones were 4 bolt.

 

[Heywood]

I have never seen the 4 bolt arms so if thats what they are then obviously that would be an easy way to go. Why would people with 4 bolt arms want to go with tubular arms then? I thought the main advantage of these was the heim joint allowing less forward/backward movement.

In thinking about this I had 2 things in mind, the main being to stiffen the arm by only allowing it to move vertically which would help with wheel hop. I also thought it would make changing them easier once you had the bracket piece installed, but obviously that's a pretty minor thing.

Do the 4 bolt arms have rubber bushings like the 2 bolt type or are they rigid? I'd like to see a picture if anyone has one.

 

[striker2]

what your talking about is exactly what the 4bolt style arms are.

the 4bolters were on the early contours [CEG gurus feel free to correct my tour info]
then they switched to the 2 bolters
and then at the tail end of production went back to the 4-bolt

the cougars started as 2 bolt and the final ones were 4 bolt.

the contours never switched back to the 4 bolt once going to the 2 bolt style. other than that your correct.

 

[striker2]

I have never seen the 4 bolt arms so if thats what they are then obviously that would be an easy way to go. Why would people with 4 bolt arms want to go with tubular arms then? I thought the main advantage of these was the heim joint allowing less forward/backward movement.

In thinking about this I had 2 things in mind, the main being to stiffen the arm by only allowing it to move vertically which would help with wheel hop. I also thought it would make changing them easier once you had the bracket piece installed, but obviously that's a pretty minor thing.

Do the 4 bolt arms have rubber bushings like the 2 bolt type or are they rigid? I'd like to see a picture if anyone has one.

only the people with the 2 bolt arms really want the tubular arms, those with the 4-bolts may want some just to stiffen it even more and get rid of the rubber bushing (although its a pretty strong bushing) or just to reduce unsprung weight. the bushing is an almost solid piece of rubber with a metal var running through it for the 2 bolts (installed vertically like the 2 bolt arms). unless the bushings are completly shot in a 4-bolt arm you will get little to no fore/aft movement of the arm.

one thing you didnt take into account is the suspension geometry (which almost no one on here seems to understand). by adding the bracket you will wreak havoc with the already good stock geometery. even if you shorten the arm so the ball joint is in the same place, the pivot points are now in a different location which will still mess with the geometery.


as i said before, the simplest thing to do is to just swap for a 4-bolt LCA subframe. you will have to make sure you get one from a car with the same engine (V6 or I4) as the subframes are different between the 2.

 

[Heywood]

I mentioned in my first post that this would offset the pivot point slightly. What effect would this have on the suspension? I thought about it a bit and decided that it wouldn't affect it at all, other than possibly getting a bit more rotation at the ball joint for the same suspension movement.
It wouldn't affect spring rates or anything like that right?

Let me add that I am as far as you can get from a suspension expert so you can correct me if this is way off base.

 

[muntus]

If it's about wheel hop, I bet you could fab up some "traction bars" a la Honda style to eliminate some of the movement that causes the wheel hop. You would just have to figure out a way to mount it to your 2 bolt LCA.

 

[bensenvill]

one thing you didnt take into account is the suspension geometry (which almost no one on here seems to understand). by adding the bracket you will wreak havoc with the already good stock geometery. even if you shorten the arm so the ball joint is in the same place, the pivot points are now in a different location which will still mess with the geometery.


as i said before, the simplest thing to do is to just swap for a 4-bolt LCA subframe. you will have to make sure you get one from a car with the same engine (V6 or I4) as the subframes are different between the 2.

ya the ruining the geometry was unspoken.

also you have to match the transmittion type as I am swapping out my manual and had to arrange for a mtx subframe because of one of the mounting points. So I had the option of converting over to a 4-bolt if I wanted to. I decided to keep the 2 bolt simply because of the replacement costs for the 4 bolt are crazy high.

 

[waldick]

Making the lca shorter would probably mess with caster/camber. The shorter the lca, the more pivot of the wheel under load/unload...

that might result un udesirable handling characteristics.

just my .02

 

[Heywood]

Gotcha, hadn't realised that, thanks. Sounds like if I was to do this, swapping the subframe would be the most economical way forward.
Thanks for the input guys.

 

[Dyoel182]

Gotcha, hadn't realised that, thanks. Sounds like if I was to do this, swapping the subframe would be the most economical way forward.

Swapping to a 4 bolt subframe?

 

[Heywood]

Swapping to a 4 bolt subframe?

Yes, that would be it.

 

[fordrule]

i know there is interest for stangkillers LCA over on neco.....here is a pic of what they look like. if there is enough interest there might be another buy for these. but they are not the cheapest.

link from neco

he also did rear ones also

 

[Heywood]

i know there is interest for stangkillers LCA over on neco.....here is a pic of what they look like. if there is enough interest there might be another buy for these. but they are not the cheapest.

link from neco

he also did rear ones also

That's what prompted me start this topic in the first place. I only just replaced my 2 bolt arms, so this is low on my priorities, it was just an idea that I had and wanted to get some opinion on.

 

[drivebymashing]

so your saying i could order 4 bolt lcas off of a 95 contour v6 and they would fit on my 98 eo svt?

 

[Goumba]

A shorter lca like the one I'm the sketch would cause bump steer issues. Baisicly it would toe out during compression.

 

[CSVT1214]

so your saying i could order 4 bolt lcas off of a 95 contour v6 and they would fit on my 98 eo svt?

Yes, the 4-bolt LCA's were used up to 98.5 then were switched to 2-bolt for 99.

Anyone with 2-bolt LCA's who would want to make the switch would need to swap the subframe.