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Brakes barely work even after bleeding 3 times.

S

Squigg

CEG'er
Joined
Aug 12, 2009
Messages
49
Location
Scarborough, ME
I've been putting this Silfro together for a while now, replaced quite a few parts, and its time to get it back on the road. I bled the brakes, no air in the lines. The pedal, after a couple pumps, is completely solid, but when the car's running, the pedal will still go to the floor like there's air in the line. So I Re-Bled the brakes. Same thing, but you could actually stop if you pumped the brakes to slow down. I re-bled them again, the same thing.

The fact that I'm not getting any air out of the the brakelines themselves leads me to believe that its a master cylinder or ABS valve issue or something. Would taking the master cylinder off and bench bleeding it be the next logical step?
 
IIRC, if the ABS unit goes dry, you will need to have it bled as well. I think you need to have Ford do this, or someone that can make the ABS unit "pump".
 
sure, if u have a wiring diagram, just jumper it. However, im not sure if the bleeders need to be open or not so don't jumper it unless u know for sure
 
All you guys are so full of it...........I have no problem at all doing mine. The procedure is same for ABS and non ABS.

Dude, you got air still in there, doesn't matter what you see coming out. 100% brake fluid with no air is noncompressible. Cannot bleed without engine running. You can't bleed by yourself, you'll need someone to at least help you. Either that or speed bleeders..........

Could be bad m/c, bypassing internally.

You can have plenty of air in line and not show whatsoever if stroke displacement does not move the air down far enough to show at bleeder point. Meaning longer lines, air will move part way down them and then float back up line when pedal released since the amount of stroke not enough to purge the entire volume in the line. A pressure bleeder would take care of that pronto.
 
amc49 said:
All you guys are so full of it...........I have no problem at all doing mine. The procedure is same for ABS and non ABS.

Dude, you got air still in there, doesn't matter what you see coming out. 100% brake fluid with no air is noncompressible. Cannot bleed without engine running. You can't bleed by yourself, you'll need someone to at least help you. Either that or speed bleeders..........

Could be bad m/c, bypassing internally.

You can have plenty of air in line and not show whatsoever if stroke displacement does not move the air down far enough to show at bleeder point. Meaning longer lines, air will move part way down them and then float back up line when pedal released since the amount of stroke not enough to purge the entire volume in the line. A pressure bleeder would take care of that pronto.
Click to expand...

If you got air into the ABS module it can indeed be very difficult to get the air out. You need to cycle the ABS to get it out. That can be done with some scan tools. It can also be done by finding a slippery area of road or parking lot and braking hard enough to invoke the ABS. It may take several times to purge the air. Fresh snow or rain will help.

I have heard of a shade tree way to do it, but I have not tried it yet so I have not verified it. I'll pass it along if you want to try. It works best with all four wheels off the ground and you may need to do it with each wheel. With the engine running (I don't know if it needs to be in gear or not), have an assistant gently apply the brakes while you grab a wheel and force it to keep turning. If it works as I have heard it will, you will hear the ABS module chatter.

If you try this and it works for you, please get back to us.
 
Sounds like stuck brake pads to me. Don't laugh ask MattR. I went threw the same thing.

Some things that cause this. New pads sometimes have too much paint on the contact points that meet the bracket. Wire wheel the paint off. Also rust built up, or in some cases were someone has painted the caliper bracket.

I've only ran into this once and it was with MattR's contour. It did the same thing, bleed the hell out of the system even used a scanner to bleed ABS system, but each and everytime I took it out for a ride the pedal could be pumped up, then go to make another stop and back to the floor again. After cleaning everything up, all was good. And I found this info on the autozone trouble shooting, and stuck/sticking brake pads is listed...
 
I've never had any trouble at all and the system once was completely empty of fluid. Actually blew out the lines trying to purge old fluid.
 
another thing that you can check is the axle nut. if its loose the rotors can wobble and that pushed the bake pads back and you will have to pump the brake to get them working correctly again.
 
Check the clips on your calipers. I installed mine incorrectly doing pads on my 00 SVT and the result was exactly the same.
 
BrApple said:
another thing that you can check is the axle nut. if its loose the rotors can wobble and that pushed the bake pads back and you will have to pump the brake to get them working correctly again.
Click to expand...

I just went through something like that, except it was a badly worn wheel bearing that was causing the wheel and rotor to wobble, pushing the brake piston back as I drove down the road.

I would probably check the MC out first.
 
amc49 said:
All you guys are so full of it...........I have no problem at all doing mine. The procedure is same for ABS and non ABS.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure he knows how to bleed the brakes but purging an ABS pump is a whole different story.
 
the procedure is the same reguardless. i have had a strange unable to bleed concern on a contour though, it was some goofy thing on the pedal side. it wasnt the master though. i would however keep bleeding it until your forsure it doesn't wanna be right.
 
ContourGuy9817 said:
the procedure is the same reguardless. i have had a strange unable to bleed concern on a contour though, it was some goofy thing on the pedal side. it wasnt the master though. i would however keep bleeding it until your forsure it doesn't wanna be right.
Click to expand...

Yes the procedure is the same UNLESS you get air trapped in the ABS pump and it wont come out on its own during bleeding.
 
Ugh, the "advice" in this thread is mostly terrible.

It is not the ABS module.
It is not the brake booster.

First, I would thoroughly re-bleed again. I know you've done it twice, but make sure its right. From your description this is the most likely candidate. Make sure you know how to bleed brakes properly though, lots of folks think they do, and just manage to make things worse.
Second, as someone said, make sure you check that your calipers are assembled correctly. Missing, or incorrectly installed spring clips can feel like you describe.
Third, examine the entire system, including hard lines, and hoses to the calipers for any sign of damage or swelling, etc.
And finally, bench bleed the master cylinder, but only bother doing this if nothing else helps, though if you managed to run the reservoir dry during one of your previous bleeds, then you might just start with this one.
 
Rara said:
Ugh, the "advice" in this thread is mostly terrible.

Missing, or incorrectly installed spring clips can feel like you describe.
Click to expand...

I'm putting my money on this. Saw someone bleeding his system...ove rand over again..till i arrived and saw the brake pad clip wasn't installed and the pad had fallen...causing him to have no pressure in the breaks.

Rara is the man to listen to. He doesn't post that often. So follow his words with a step by step approach. :cool:
 
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