Awesome! I cant wait
-
Welcome to the Contour Enthusiasts Group, the best resource for the Ford Contour and Mercury Mystique.
You can register to join the community.
Checking Interest on LIM MODS
- Thread starter BurritaSVT
- Start date
- Status
SpdySVT
CEG'er
joey thats awsome u do so much for the CSVT community as well as the duratec community just wanted to say thanks .. and put me down for 1 ...... no but really great job im also interested in the SC kit when it's done ..
contour2gq
CEG'er
Ok im not really trying to knock your product, but if it's already returnless theres no point in buying your product. Cause you dont have to fab the fuel rtail and its almost basically a straight drop in for the 3L besides the modes you have to do to the outside ect. I dont see what the point is putting a svt intake on a oval port motor. Im mean unless you got some dyno numbers showing a 3L with a svt intake and then the same 3L with just the 3L intake, and making better number with a svt on a 3L. 3L cams on a split ports are not effective and dont make enough power, and splitport cams in a 3L oval port setup also makes less power and is pointless. if you are using oval port heads then SVT cams are a serious no-no. Remember that the port timing is different between both lobes of the intake ports and that may attribute to losing power - Not gaining it. For the most part, almost everyone thought using SVT cams in a straight 3L was a good idea until they did their homework and found out that the cams were tuned for split ports - Not oval ports.The flows,pulses etc etc are no where near the same.I think the 'ego' of the 'SVT' sticker is still around! And it its blatantly obvious the SVT UIM has way less volume than the 3L intake. Look at the size of the runners. Then as soon as the air comes through teh throttlebody hits a wall goes around the corner hits another wall ect. THe SVT UIM is a poor design. It might have a little better velocity than a 3L upper but I Wouldnt know cause I never done a test but you dont have to do a test to see that it has more volume. Another thing I got a full 3L swap in my 98svt with out having to fab a fuel rail. Just some minor adjustment to some fuel lines
And for people wanting to do a 3L hybrid you dont have to use jb weld or any other kind of filler."Just tap the hole with a 3/8"x16 tap and installing a 3/8" Set screw coated in liquid teflon. It works out pretty good and only takes a minute or two to install.With the rear tensioner off, I use a little lithium grease - Coat the hole and then tap. It catches most of the material, and what it doesn't I use brake parts cleaner to flush down the feed hole which exits at the tensioner feed hole. Comes out clean every time." Thats a quote from the owner of FCO. Just thought I would share
And for people wanting to do a 3L hybrid you dont have to use jb weld or any other kind of filler."Just tap the hole with a 3/8"x16 tap and installing a 3/8" Set screw coated in liquid teflon. It works out pretty good and only takes a minute or two to install.With the rear tensioner off, I use a little lithium grease - Coat the hole and then tap. It catches most of the material, and what it doesn't I use brake parts cleaner to flush down the feed hole which exits at the tensioner feed hole. Comes out clean every time." Thats a quote from the owner of FCO. Just thought I would share
Last edited:
Keith lets really not get a debate going in here. I'm buying it specifically cause I have a double extrude honed & powdercoated UIM so I def want to use it and also any thing to make my swap a lil easier on OB1 the betterOk im not really trying to knock your product, but if it's already returnless theres no point in buying your product. Cause you dont have to fab the fuel rtail and its almost basically a straight drop in for the 3L besides the modes you have to do to the outside ect. I dont see what the point is putting a svt intake on a oval port motor. Im mean unless you got some dyno numbers showing a 3L with a svt intake and then the same 3L with just the 3L intake, and making better number with a svt on a 3L. 3L cams on a split ports are not effective and dont make enough power, and splitport cams in a 3L oval port setup also makes less power and is pointless. if you are using oval port heads then SVT cams are a serious no-no. Remember that the port timing is different between both lobes of the intake ports and that may attribute to losing power - Not gaining it. For the most part, almost everyone thought using SVT cams in a straight 3L was a good idea until they did their homework and found out that the cams were tuned for split ports - Not oval ports.The flows,pulses etc etc are no where near the same.I think the 'ego' of the 'SVT' sticker is still around! And it its blatantly obvious the SVT UIM has way less volume than the 3L intake. Look at the size of the runners. Then as soon as the air comes through teh throttlebody hits a wall goes around the corner hits another wall ect. THe SVT UIM is a poor design. It might have a little better velocity than a 3L upper but I Wouldnt know cause I never done a test but you dont have to do a test to see that it has more volume. Another thing I got a full 3L swap in my 98svt with out having to fab a fuel rail. Just some minor adjustment to some fuel lines
ArtSvt
CEG'er
I like the look of the SVT UIM, and being able to access the rear spark plugs with out removing the entire UIM is a great plus...:shrug: Although im not looking to get the most power possible.. But..
I think that a car(and engine) should look good to eye. And The 3L UIM is butt ugly!
If your looking to get a lot more power... go turbo. You can make more power than what is usable and your engine bay will still be lookin good when you are showing off what you got..:shrug:
I think that a car(and engine) should look good to eye. And The 3L UIM is butt ugly!
If your looking to get a lot more power... go turbo. You can make more power than what is usable and your engine bay will still be lookin good when you are showing off what you got..:shrug:
Ok im not really trying to knock your product, but if it's already returnless theres no point in buying your product. Cause you dont have to fab the fuel rtail and its almost basically a straight drop in for the 3L besides the modes you have to do to the outside ect. I dont see what the point is putting a svt intake on a oval port motor. Im mean unless you got some dyno numbers showing a 3L with a svt intake and then the same 3L with just the 3L intake, and making better number with a svt on a 3L. 3L cams on a split ports are not effective and dont make enough power, and splitport cams in a 3L oval port setup also makes less power and is pointless. if you are using oval port heads then SVT cams are a serious no-no. Remember that the port timing is different between both lobes of the intake ports and that may attribute to losing power - Not gaining it. For the most part, almost everyone thought using SVT cams in a straight 3L was a good idea until they did their homework and found out that the cams were tuned for split ports - Not oval ports.The flows,pulses etc etc are no where near the same.I think the 'ego' of the 'SVT' sticker is still around! And it its blatantly obvious the SVT UIM has way less volume than the 3L intake. Look at the size of the runners. Then as soon as the air comes through teh throttlebody hits a wall goes around the corner hits another wall ect. THe SVT UIM is a poor design. It might have a little better velocity than a 3L upper but I Wouldnt know cause I never done a test but you dont have to do a test to see that it has more volume. Another thing I got a full 3L swap in my 98svt with out having to fab a fuel rail. Just some minor adjustment to some fuel lines
Its been beaten into the ground, and you have no real proof to prove your theories on the 3 liter, or refute your theories on the splitports. Only what you hear over on FCO
. I suppose thats why there are multiple dyno plots for multiple variations of motor setups that all put out around the same peak numbers, just at different RPM'sBurritaSVT
Veteran CEG'er
We all know there i not one dyno that was swapped where the UIM and the LIM was changed to see the differeence. I will say this did you personally measure the ports and do area flow and see which one flows more yet. I did from oval port has 10% less area than the split ports the surface area of a split port is 2.75" which is equal to a 1.87" round pipe. The oval port has a surface area of 2.3" which is equal to 1.75" round pipe. So why would you go oval port not increase the flow because the split port already have the larger channels combined. I will be sitting back drinking a margarita while you are waiting for you to relocate the EGR ,coil pack, throttlebracket and many more other problems I am sure you can name. the fuel line does not reach the oval port end on the most of the returnless systems I saw you have to add to the fuel rail to get it to reach and I am no way a fan of brazing. I don't like the look of the oval port it looks unsporty to me just my opinion. I like a plug and play setup if I can help it. The return style people even have more problems too because they have to definitly start hacking the fuel line which once again is time and money and dangerous if not done professionally.
And if you are talking about UIM volume guess what the intercooler system acts like under boost like one huge manifold with alot of compressive air with alot of energy.
Now if I had my way since I own all my tools have all the time in the world and own four vehicles I woul do just what I did port the heads and send off my UIM to get port to the max and then drill out the LIM elminate the secondaires butterflies and hit 600hp just like I will with my current setup. I am not convinced that the intake is worth the trouble or the looks in my opinion.
Here are some pics of the flanges of my LIM mod hard to tell the difference in size right...........
And if you are talking about UIM volume guess what the intercooler system acts like under boost like one huge manifold with alot of compressive air with alot of energy.
Now if I had my way since I own all my tools have all the time in the world and own four vehicles I woul do just what I did port the heads and send off my UIM to get port to the max and then drill out the LIM elminate the secondaires butterflies and hit 600hp just like I will with my current setup. I am not convinced that the intake is worth the trouble or the looks in my opinion.
Here are some pics of the flanges of my LIM mod hard to tell the difference in size right...........
Last edited:
BAD SVT
Addicted CEG'er
We all know there i not one dyno that was swapped where the UIM and the LIM was changed to see the differeence. I will say this did you personally measure the ports and do area flow and see which one flows more yet. I did from oval port has 5% more area than the split ports the surface area of a split port is 2.75" which is equal to a 1.87" round pipe. The oval port has a surface area of 2.9" which is equal to 1.92" round pipe. If you really think you will gain performance on 5% of air flow when first off that is overkill for our engine either way you go NA then I will be sitting back drinking a margarita while you are waiting for you to relocate the EGR ,coil pack, and many more problems I am sure you can name. the fuel line does not reach the oval port end on the most of the returnless systems I saw you have to add to the fuel rail to get it to reach and I am no way a fan of brazing. I don't like the look of the oval port it looks unsporty to me just my opinion. I like a plug and play setup if I can help it. The return style people even have more problems too because they have to definitly start hacking the fuel line which once again is time and money and dangerous if not done professionally.
And if you are going to do forced induction you really think that the turbo will back up on a .1" diameter difference on the manifold. And if you are talking about UIM volume guess what the intercooler system acts like under boost like one huge manifold with alot of compressive air with alot of energy.
Now if I had my way since I own all my tools have all the time in the world and own four vehicles I woul do just what I did port the heads and send off my UIM to get port to the max and then drill out the LIM elminate the secondaires butterflies and hit 600hp just like I will with my current setup. I am not convinced that the intake is worth the trouble or the looks in my opinion.
Here are some pics of the flanges of my LIM mod hard to tell the difference in size right...........
Aaaaagh! The sensei(master) at work... I have no clue wot u just explained, but i like it. Keep working joey
contour2gq
CEG'er
Well I havent done any test personally but the man him self terry hains who worked with Porsche in hte design of the duratec has. Its not people guessing over there! They have done real test and real dyno numbers with nanometers ect. Terry said the original design that porche had for hte intake might be a dif story. Cause it was liek the SHO mottor with very big intake runners. The svts almsot chokes it when trying to make high numbers, Yeah I used to like the look of the svt intake better and it did look better. Untill I got the 05 upper intake. Which is like TWICE the size of the original 3L intake. And in that pic ur showing hte ports that go to the head. You got to think about the upper part of the intake where the TB is where it can hold alot more volume than the SVT's. Think about it fords not going to down grade the intakes on these things. THeyre going to improve it. If hte SVT's intake was so good then tell me why they didnt use it on the 3L???? Its obvious And the egr? Thats a piece of cake. If you cant do that you shouldnt be doing a 3L swap anyway. That takes like all of 5Mins when the motors out anyway. And relocate the coil pack? Why the hell would you have to do that? I didnt. Untill I got that big ass massive 05 upper intake. THen I did. Which again is nothing to do. And I dont know why you would have to add to the fuel rail on a RETUNRLESS system if I have a RETURN system and I didnt have to do it to mine. But if you say so. But like lil buddy said it been beatn into the ground and if you want to spend more money than you have to go ahead....
And the egr? Thats a piece of cake. If you cant do that you shouldnt be doing a 3L swap anyway. That takes like all of 5Mins when the motors out anyway. And relocate the coil pack? Why the hell would you have to do that? I didnt. Untill I got that big ass massive 05 upper intake. THen I did. Which again is nothing to do. And I dont know why you would have to add to the fuel rail on a RETUNRLESS system if I have a RETURN system and I didnt have to do it to mine. But if you say so. But like lil buddy said it been beatn into the ground and if you want to spend more money than you have to go ahead....no offense Keith but if that is a relocation of your coil pack then i would hate to see stuff thrown together lol. Like I said I have a pc and double extrude honed svt UIM so I'm going to use it so this will be a better part for me but that is just me and my .02
contour2gq
CEG'er
lol it was mounted to the from valve cover. I just sat it there cause I was in a hurry! And that little bit of honing.... IDK if you ever took that upper off but think about how much build up that intake gets just cause of when teh secondaries are closed. Doesnt really make a dif with all that build up does it?
OB1
Hard-core CEG'er
All of that is easily fixed. Your opinion is just that your opinion. More power to you on what you believe but we can make up our on minds on the matter.
contour2gq
CEG'er
You are def right. Why believe the engioneer who help make the contour and design the engine. Believe the guy that help make a turbo kit for it lol
BurritaSVT
Veteran CEG'er
Well I havent done any test personally but the man him self terry hains who worked with Porsche in hte design of the duratec has. Its not people guessing over there! They have done real test and real dyno numbers with nanometers ect. Terry said the original design that porche had for hte intake might be a dif story. Cause it was liek the SHO mottor with very big intake runners. The svts almsot chokes it when trying to make high numbers, Yeah I used to like the look of the svt intake better and it did look better. Untill I got the 05 upper intake. Which is like TWICE the size of the original 3L intake. And in that pic ur showing hte ports that go to the head. You got to think about the upper part of the intake where the TB is where it can hold alot more volume than the SVT's. Think about it fords not going to down grade the intakes on these things. THeyre going to improve it. If hte SVT's intake was so good then tell me why they didnt use it on the 3L???? Its obvious
Just because they change the design to a lightweight inexpensive manifold does not mean the dual runner intake was not better or worse. Casting has its problems where it has to be honed down to make the bumps and pit smooth out costing the company more money. Anytime a factory does a major swap is to save money and that is for sure. The oval port volume is almost nearly the same as split port take the manifols and fold it half what you have then (look familar then). The way I look at it in performance you can't see any noticable difference either way but I can look under the hood as a judge in show car event and I would pick the UIM on the 2.5 liter everyday and If I saw a SHO motor I would pick it over all the UIM. Until someone tops my power @13psi 400whp 410wtq falling off at 6200 rpms due to compressor wheel to small then you can sell me on the concept.
The conclusion is the setup is worth every penny to me if I am doing a long block swap since it keep alllllllllllll components in the same spot and looks stock. Plus I can paint my UIM any color I like
contour2gq
CEG'er
Well if paint is what ur worried about. THere is a company here in GA and others all over, but they actually chrome plastice! Which is what i will be doing soon ot my 3L intake. And like terry pointed out and is proven polishing does nothing really in performance. Its better to have a slightly ruff srufface. I wish I could find his post where he was talking about it cause I cant remember everything, but iuts something with the pits that makes a pocket of air and helps speed up the air intake. He said think of it like a golf ball. Why do you think they have all those little dimples in it? It creates a pocket of air that helps force the air around the ball and speeds helps speed the ball up and makes it go farther
BurritaSVT
Veteran CEG'er
the tumbling effect acts like a barrier where the air swirls like rollers allowing the air to flow easier. They do not polish it extrude hone they open up the passages more since they are casted but they use a coarse sanding particle to do so. I know Terry too he is a smart person I am not arguing his point of view or knowledge. And if you want more tumbling effect then why would you choose plastic over cast when we know cast has more tumbling effect due to pockets in the cast. You know the 2.5 liter heads with 3 liter valves flows more than the 3 liter stock oval port? Kinger had flow tested the two setup and the SVT had a superior intake tract with too small of valves. So if the heads flow better than what you think the upper part is like the SAME.
Chrome hold heat also heat=:nonono:
contour2gq
CEG'er
Bigger isnt always better. Terry has a built ztec motor that they use in one of there race cars and actually gained alot more power out the motor by putting SMALLER valves in the head. But agian im just going to stop talking cause liek it was said its been beatn into the ground and ill aggree to disagree. You make a good turbo kit and are the only one out right now that I know of, and I thank you for it. Cause I def want one! lol. I will say though it would make it a little more easy to do the swap but it will def cost more. And I think it will just be on what the person wants to spend and how much work he wants to save doing it... and icy obviously you never drtiven a straight 3L cause I can drive mine all day and still put my hand on the upper intake. Which is another advantage of the 3L upper intake. Cooler temps and dissipates heat better
Last edited:
warmonger
Hard-core CEG'er
Ok im not really trying to knock your product, but if it's already returnless theres no point in buying your product. Cause you dont have to fab the fuel rtail and its almost basically a straight drop in for the 3L besides the modes you have to do to the outside ect. I dont see what the point is putting a svt intake on a oval port motor. Im mean unless you got some dyno numbers showing a 3L with a svt intake and then the same 3L with just the 3L intake, and making better number with a svt on a 3L. 3L cams on a split ports are not effective and dont make enough power, and splitport cams in a 3L oval port setup also makes less power and is pointless. if you are using oval port heads then SVT cams are a serious no-no. Remember that the port timing is different between both lobes of the intake ports and that may attribute to losing power - Not gaining it. For the most part, almost everyone thought using SVT cams in a straight 3L was a good idea until they did their homework and found out that the cams were tuned for split ports - Not oval ports.The flows,pulses etc etc are no where near the same.I think the 'ego' of the 'SVT' sticker is still around! And it its blatantly obvious the SVT UIM has way less volume than the 3L intake. Look at the size of the runners. Then as soon as the air comes through teh throttlebody hits a wall goes around the corner hits another wall ect. THe SVT UIM is a poor design. It might have a little better velocity than a 3L upper but I Wouldnt know cause I never done a test but you dont have to do a test to see that it has more volume. Another thing I got a full 3L swap in my 98svt with out having to fab a fuel rail. Just some minor adjustment to some fuel lines
Sorry man. That info is out of date.
SVT cams and intake on a straigh ovalport longblock throws down serious numbers where a straight 3L oval does not. You're looking at 20HP difference to the wheels in many cases.
Running with secondaries also shows a benefit even with the ovalport engine though it is more of a benefit on split port heads.
I have airflow data from engine datalogs that shows this to be the case. I have dynos from way way back of all kinds of engines and show this to be the case.
:help:
warmonger
Hard-core CEG'er
... If hte SVT's intake was so good then tell me why they didnt use it on the 3L???? Its obvious
Cost. And desired engine performance. The 3L with oval provides a perfect matchup to an ATX powered car and it does not support higher rpm better than the SVT intake which has tuned lengths.
I've got airflow data of split port cams in an SVT engine and this data shows that the car still flows well in higher rpms due to the svt manifold. THe manifold and the cams are complementary and the airflow is improved yet again by combining them.
- Status