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Fixing that Separating Surround

K

kcobra

Veteran CEG'er
Joined
Jun 26, 2000
Messages
841
Location
rochester
I picked up a Alpine Type-R 12" 2ohm DVC model SWR-1222D off of Craigslist for 60 bucks. Built a new box for it ( My First attempt at ever building a box). I get the box all done, mount the sub-woofer and am hearing air leaking out around the screw holes. Upon closer inspection I realize that the surround is separating from the basket. I started doing some research and here is what I learned. Most manufactures use CA glue to attach surrounds to the basket, and apparently Alpines glue is terrible. I was worried CA glue was going to cost me a fortune. Turns out it is just the chemical name for Super-Glue, go figure. So here we go.


IMG_0497..JPG

My surround was separated in quite a few places and the glue seemed really soft and rubbery. So I peeled the entire surround off the basket. I wouldn't recommend this unless it comes apart really easy. Just reattach the separated areas.
Also make sure you get all the old glue off the basket and surround as well as any dust. I used rubbing alcohol and it worked very well.

IMG_0496..JPG
Clean surround and basket.

I don't have pictures of the actual super gluing the surround back on because of how fast the stuff dries. Just put enough glue down so when you press the surround into it it completely covers the contact point and in a matter of seconds that section of surround is reattached. I also suggest working on 1/8th of the surround at a time or if your speaker only has 6 holes 1/6 at a time. so you don't end up with glue drying before you can put the surround in the correct place.

IMG_0499..JPG
Completely Repaired and the total time spent on the job was maybe 15-20 minutes including running to Walgreens at 11pm to buy superglue.
 
I have never heard of super glue being used in CA. Normally CA glue this thick black stuff thats is real smelly and hazardous to breathe in and is very strong. Theres guys on caraudio.com/forum that do speaker rebuilds that could tell you what kind of glue they use. Just keep your eye on it, you might have to redo it.

If you think that stuff was cheap, youd be amazed at how the surround even stays on, on the cheapy Hifonics HiFi 12's. I took one apart recently and it took no effort at all to pull off the surround.
 
Yea, I've rebuilt many, many home speakers with rotten, deteriorated or crumbling foam surrounds and never used CA glue, even for foam surrounds on metal baskets. Aileen's Tacky Glue, sold at most JoAnn's Fabric & Craft Stores is the best. It is a white glue that sets fairly quickly, but allows you to move and position the surround to make sure it is centered properly so no stresses are put on the voice coil. Your CA application may (or may not) work, so here's hoping....
 
I could understand ca glue might not be the glue to use for foam surrounds, but this speaker has a rubber surround.


I am pretty sure I am going to go back to my three 10's I cant get any sound through the rear seats at normal listening volume.
 
Type arrrgghs like ported boxes. Have you tried folding down the seats?

and I was referring to ca as car audio not the chemical term.
 
I have tried folding the seats down but it is such a pain to pop the trunk and the fold the seat down everytime you get in the car. I was contemplating hooking the rcas to the rear preout instead of the nonfading preout so the loudness would give me more bass at lower volumes. I had never built a speaker box until Monday evening. I wouldn't mind trying to build a ported box but I live in a apartment and I don't think my old man would be all that thrilled about me covering his basement in sawdust.
 
Lowes and Home Depot and smaller local owned wood retailers will cut the wood for you. All you need is some glue and screws and preferably pipe clamps but screws will help if you dont have those. Only cutting you'd have to do is for the woofer cutout. What cu/ft did you make your box?
 
it is .87 cubic feet. within the range of .7 to 1.0 that alpine recommends. I had homedepot cut the sheet of mdf in half for the box this sub is currently in and they told me no precision cuts.
 
Yea every HD I have been to won't do more a few than rip cuts to get the board to fit in your car. Menards won't even cut the board in half for you. Never asked a Lowe's to more do precision cuts. Local lumber yards will though. And most of the time the wood is the cheapest there to begin with. A sheet of 3/4 mdf is about $33 at HD, Lowes and Menards. At my local lumberyard it was only $24.

I've built boxes with just a jig saw. It's not that hard, you just have to be really careful and work slow.

What kind of amp are you using?

EDIT: I just pulled up the electrical specs on that....The graph will show why you aren't getting the output you want.

Im gonna do my best to keep this as little confusing as possible .....





First off, look at the horizontal purple line, the F3 cutoff. This is a 1 octave drop (-3dB) from the reference line (0dB, red horizontal line) You won't hear much ouput below this frequency and the further (lower) you go, the less output you will get. Ideally you want this as low as possible to have a wide range of notes that are played. For music listening and to keep things simple, most people prefer 25-30hz for the -3 cutoff. The part of the curve that crosses this point should ideally be as flat as possible. The steeper the line, the faster it falls off and the more peaky of a box you have. These peaky types of response curves are used by those who compete in competitions where the only concern is to get loud over a narrow bandwidth (burping test tones) rather than playing across a broad spectrum (real music).


Most people online say they are running their type arrghs in 2-2.25 cu/ft per woofer with tuning in the low 30's. The exact #'s depend on the vehicle being used. To keep things simple I'll use 2.0 cu/ft tuned to 30hz for comparison purposes.

The yellow line is the 2 @ 30hz example- note the gain below 40hz over the green line and the lowest -3 cutoff. Also notice how tuning lower has flatten the shape of the curve over the green line. This still has a steep roll off but its pretty low (mid 20's) so that won't affect things.

The green line is Alpine's recommended 1.3 (after sub and port displacement) @36hz note the steep drop off below 40hz. This will still a more boomy and peakier and sound and you loose on the lows (below 40hz)

red line is your box (before any displacement) f3

blue line is after sub displacement

It really comes down to your listening preferences.

They generally say port tuning 30hz and below is for sound quality, 30-37hz is for sql (sq with more loudness) and above 37hz is more for spl (loud and boomy)
 
Kenwood eXcelon kac-x520

Max Power Output (4 Ω)
Normal..............................................................................................................................500 W × 2
Bridged ..........................................................................................................................1000 W × 1
Rated Power Output (+B = 12.0 V)
Normal (4 Ω) (20 Hz – 20 kHz, 0.05 % THD) ......................................................................90 W × 2
Normal (2 Ω) (1 kHz, 0.5 % THD) ....................................................................................170 W × 2
Bridged (4 Ω) (1 kHz, 0.5 % THD) ....................................................................................340 W × 1
Rated Power Output (+B = 14.4 V)
Normal (4 Ω) (20 Hz – 20 kHz, 0.05 % THD) ....................................................................125 W × 2
Normal (4 Ω) (DIN : 45324 , +B = 14.4V) ........................................................................125 W × 2
Normal (2 Ω) (1 kHz, 0.5 % THD) ....................................................................................250 W × 2
Bridged (4 Ω) (1 kHz, 0.5 % THD) ....................................................................................500 W × 1
Frequency Response (+0, –3 dB) ................................................................................5 Hz – 100 kHz
Total Harmonic Distortion (Rated power)
#
................................................................0.006 % (1 kHz)
Sensitivity (rated output) (MAX.) ................................................................................................0.2 V
Sensitivity (rated output) (MIN.) ................................................................................................5.0 V
Signal to Noise Ratio................................................................................................................105 dB
Input Impedance........................................................................................................................10 kΩ
Low Pass Filter Frequency (18 dB/oct.) ............................................................50 – 200 Hz (variable)
High Pass Filter Frequency (12 dB/oct.) ............................................................50 – 200 Hz (variable)
Infrasonic Filter Frequency (24 dB/oct.) ....................................................................................15 Hz
B.M.S. (40 – 100 Hz : variable) ......................................................................OFF / +6 / +12 / +18 dB
 
The power is adequate so your next step is the enclosure. Ditch that sealed box. They're like restrictor plates seriously
 
The whole point of getting the single 12 was to save space in the trunk. I have since given up on the 12 and put it up for sale. my 3 10 alumapros are back in the car and I'm happy again.

alumapros are in a total combined box size of roughly 2.33ft^3. the box slides in between the shock towers and doesn't stick out much past them if at all. I suppose i was looking for the old school solo-baric kind of small box .66 cubic feet with 500 w-rms plenty enough sound.
 
yea possibly

I could even sell you the box I have for my Boston G1. Pm me for a price.
 
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