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Mod list, how much gain?

B

biminiLX

Hard-core CEG'er
Joined
Sep 27, 2007
Messages
1,730
Location
Pittsburgh area, PA
Mods going in soon on my stock SVT:

NPG CAI
ASP crank pulley
SHO shop Y gutted cat
custom 2.5"-2.25" exhaust

I'm guessing 20hp flywheel total :shrug:
Just wondering, I'm hoping for a mpg increase too.
-J
 
ide say closer to 15hp gain with a full exhaust and the CAI, maybe 20 at most on a good tune. and about the mpg change. i put the NPG CAI and a full catless y-pipe/ cat back on my car and i havent noticed any mpg increase..:shrug:
 
Headers and mil's would give you a real nice kick to that list, they are the biggest Hp Bolt-on you can do IMHO
​
 
contrary to whats said here,the udp's have been dyno'd on the taurus boards(on a 3L) and have shown decent gains.
i'd put it between 10-15 whp
 
95pgt-t said:
contrary to whats said here,the udp's have been dyno'd on the taurus boards(on a 3L) and have shown decent gains.
i'd put it between 10-15 whp
Click to expand...

Nobody here ever said a crank UDP wouldn't show power gains; it's been said that its not a good idea to use one on these engines. The bottom end is already plagued by rod bearing issues, no sense in making things potentially more unreliable by deleting the balancer portion of the crank pulley.
 
Rara said:
Nobody here ever said a crank UDP wouldn't show power gains; it's been said that its not a good idea to use one on these engines. The bottom end is already plagued by rod bearing issues, no sense in making things potentially more unreliable by deleting the balancer portion of the crank pulley.
Click to expand...
I was wondering how many posts would go by before hating on the UDP.
I'm pretty experienced modding cars and an UDP is always a reliable gain.
I know you're not arguing that and I can understand part of your thoughts, but its a DD that isn't going to see sustained high RPMs.
I'll take my chances. If it :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored:s a bearing then there's the excuse for a 3L and headers :laugh:.
I've been looking but might have missed if the NPG has been tested by itself on a dyno :shrug:
-J
 
SVTkid said:
ide say closer to 15hp gain with a full exhaust and the CAI, maybe 20 at most on a good tune. and about the mpg change. i put the NPG CAI and a full catless y-pipe/ cat back on my car and i havent noticed any mpg increase..:shrug:
Click to expand...
Interesting, I figured the improved intake/exhaust efficiency would give a very small mpg increase. I drive alot in conditions where its easy to test mpg gains so we'll see. Maybe you just had your foot in it more to hear both ends :laugh:
What are your thoughts on the NPG and what exhaust did you go with?
-J
 
biminiLX said:
I was wondering how many posts would go by before hating on the UDP.
I'm pretty experienced modding cars and an UDP is always a reliable gain.
I know you're not arguing that and I can understand part of your thoughts, but its a DD that isn't going to see sustained high RPMs.
I'll take my chances. If it :censored::censored::censored::censored::censored:s a bearing then there's the excuse for a 3L and headers :laugh:.
I've been looking but might have missed if the NPG has been tested by itself on a dyno :shrug:
-J
Click to expand...

Fwiw, crank harmonics are rarely a big problem at high rpms, its the mid range that tends to be an issue. Undamped crank harmonics can do bad things. Our race team destroyed a number of 4.6L 4V based engines when we tried removing the harmonic balancer in favor of an UDP, one of these failures included the ONLY forged 4.6L 4V crank i've ever seen to break in half. I would think one would be more worried about reliability on a daily driver than they would on a race car where the engine gets rebuilt regularly.
And if you really just want an excuse to put together a 3L, there are far more fun ways to grenade the stock engine.

Either way, its tough to quantify the UDP vs. damper argument without a large sample size of engines. Dimensional tolerance and material composition tolerance variations create an almost infinite number of variables that affect how long a particular set of parts will last with or without a crank damper. Having a couple guys run with 10k miles on one doesn't ensure that someone else's car won't have serious issues with the same part.
 
biminiLX said:
I'm pretty experienced modding cars and an UDP is always a reliable gain.

Interesting, I figured the improved intake/exhaust efficiency would give a very small mpg increase. What are your thoughts on the NPG and what exhaust did you go with?
Click to expand...

Yes cars will gain 3-5hp somewhere in the powerband but to me its never been worth it to underdrive the alt, power steering and a/c when I rely on those daily.

The exhaust is where people really see the gain on these engines because of the restrictive precats, the restrictive y-pipe and the restrictive resonator. I've also never been too much of an intake fan unless you're dealing with a restrictive intake which the Duratec doesnt seem to have. Spending <$50 on a quality drop in filter like the AFE Pro Dry is what I recommend.
 
Rara said:
Fwiw, crank harmonics are rarely a big problem at high rpms, its the mid range that tends to be an issue. Undamped crank harmonics can do bad things. Our race team destroyed a number of 4.6L 4V based engines when we tried removing the harmonic balancer in favor of an UDP, one of these failures included the ONLY forged 4.6L 4V crank i've ever seen to break in half. I would think one would be more worried about reliability on a daily driver than they would on a race car where the engine gets rebuilt regularly.
And if you really just want an excuse to put together a 3L, there are far more fun ways to grenade the stock engine.

Either way, its tough to quantify the UDP vs. damper argument without a large sample size of engines. Dimensional tolerance and material composition tolerance variations create an almost infinite number of variables that affect how long a particular set of parts will last with or without a crank damper. Having a couple guys run with 10k miles on one doesn't ensure that someone else's car won't have serious issues with the same part.
Click to expand...
Not sure if I buy the crank harmonics not being as bad at high rpm---at least thats not what I remember.
And that 4V Cobra info. is interesting---you rarely see those cranks hurt.
I respect your knowledge and you give very good information, but all the searches (and I did many on the UDP vs. DMD) never convinced me that the UDP will harm my engine. More hearsay and piling on like I see around here on various topics (my cutting springs post for ex.).
Either way, I'm running it and look forward to a decent gain at all rpm.
-J
 
biminiLX said:
Interesting, I figured the improved intake/exhaust efficiency would give a very small mpg increase. I drive alot in conditions where its easy to test mpg gains so we'll see. Maybe you just had your foot in it more to hear both ends :laugh:
What are your thoughts on the NPG and what exhaust did you go with?
-J
Click to expand...


see i thought the same thing when i installed mine. and yes i know i had my foot in it a bit more after the exhaust was done, but now that ive settled down a little i cant say that ive seen any improvement in fuel efficiency.

however, i really like the NPG intake setup. it was fairly easy to install, except for scratching the powder coating a little on the fender (that made me mad, but that was my fault). the only thing you need to test out when you install it is how your car idles afterwards. you may or may not have to put that screen gasket from an svt in between the maf and the intake pipe. some cars idle fine without it, and some stall and idle all over the place. mine idled wierd for a few days, but i guess the computer readjusted itself and its fine now. and regarding intake sound, its actually very quiet. not like a short ram or anything. i like it though.

the exhaust i went with was the trubendz 2.5" non-resonated flowmaster ss kit with a trubendz catless y-pipe. i love it. its loud as hell. who would have ever thought a flowmaster 40 series would sound good on a V6 contour? it does get a little raspy up high in the revs though, but thats due to lack of cat. and surprisingly it doesnt have a terrible drone on the highway imo. and i gained a decent amount of topend power and lowend torque. i want to get it dynoed, but i want to pull the uim first and clean it to get rid of all the carbon buildup and that crap cause my secondaries lag a little bit..
 
Rara said:
Fwiw, crank harmonics are rarely a big problem at high rpms, its the mid range that tends to be an issue. Undamped crank harmonics can do bad things. Our race team destroyed a number of 4.6L 4V based engines when we tried removing the harmonic balancer in favor of an UDP, one of these failures included the ONLY forged 4.6L 4V crank i've ever seen to break in half. I would think one would be more worried about reliability on a daily driver than they would on a race car where the engine gets rebuilt regularly.
And if you really just want an excuse to put together a 3L, there are far more fun ways to grenade the stock engine.

Either way, its tough to quantify the UDP vs. damper argument without a large sample size of engines. Dimensional tolerance and material composition tolerance variations create an almost infinite number of variables that affect how long a particular set of parts will last with or without a crank damper. Having a couple guys run with 10k miles on one doesn't ensure that someone else's car won't have serious issues with the same part.
Click to expand...

How about the lighten fly wheel on the other end of the spectrum here? Doesn't this play a roll on the other side of the shaft? Does it not have that much of a change going from 21lbs to 13 lbs?? or w/e the lighten flywheel is.
 
and yes, dampers come into play in the mid range RPM levels. not so much higher RPMS... but what do those ford engineer friends of yours know?
 
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