Timing belt issues.... questions (my 1st post)...

[PriddyBoy]

I have a 96 Contour with a standard transmission (seems pretty rare). I like this car, but I parked it. It was bucking during acceleration while going through the gears. The car is drivable. When it starts to buck, all I have to do is ease off the gas and let it find itself, then ease back into it, (if that makes sense).

I drove it this way for a month and started hearing a ticking noise. I tracked the noise down to the timing belt which was making contact with the timing belt cover. After removing the timing belt cover, I noticed the belt is slack. How in heck does this car even run without jumping time or snapping the belt? Do I need to replace a tensioner? I found a pic of the tensioner and have no idea how it works ( no arm, no spring metal...hard fixed with "rings"?, centrificle?).

I appreciate any help or any links to solve this. I want to get back behind the wheel of this car. I had it getting 34+ mpg commuting back and forth from Huntington and Charleston, WV (55 mile each way).

 

[AliasJerk]

you need a whole new timing belt, tensioner, and idler pulleys, what is happening is the tensioner is starting to fail, causing the timing belt to get slack and retard/advance your timing by about half a degree, enough to make the car driveable, but you are getting misfires because of it.

gates timing kit is about $100 for the pre98 and can be found on www.rockauto.com

you should also go to zxtuner.com and order the zetec timing tool kit, which comes with a cam brace and a locking pin for the crank at TDC. These are NECESSARY, doing timing without them is almost impossible.

If you dont plan on doing it yourself, expect a nearly $700 repair bill parts and labor. Some shops might be a little less, some might be a little more.

 

[PriddyBoy]

Thanks, Alias. In a pinch, could I get to Charleston and back..

Thanks, Alias. In a pinch, could I get to Charleston and back..

before I set up the refit of the timing set. I won't even try unless I get too low on cars. How long can that belt hold up before it flippin' snaps.

 

[AliasJerk]

before I set up the refit of the timing set. I won't even try unless I get too low on cars. How long can that belt hold up before it flippin' snaps.

based upon what you have told me, I wouldnt even think you can get 10 miles out of it. my when tensioner gave out I was able to limp the car home and thats it.

 

[BrApple]

well the timing belt is suppose to have alittle slack in it. how much deflection in the belt is there?

the tensioner isn't a true tensioner. it is set with a spring when the belt is installed and then it is locked down and the spring is removed.

how does the belt look? I have a feeling that there is another issue. bucking on hard acceleration is often caused by spark. how are the plus and wires? when where they last changed? how does the belt physically look?

I have 207k miles on my car, timing belt was changed at 104k. the tensioner pulley was worn and about to crack in half but it never effected how the car drove. the time that I did get some bucking while accelerating it was the plug wires that had gone bad.

 

[BrApple]

you need a whole new timing belt, tensioner, and idler pulleys, what is happening is the tensioner is starting to fail, causing the timing belt to get slack and retard/advance your timing by about half a degree, enough to make the car driveable, but you are getting misfires because of it.

what is your source for this information? how was the timing difference measured? I doubt that half a degree really is going to make much difference. I bet the belt stretches enough to cause a half degree change in the timing. How is the tensioner failing? I can see two ways that it would fail, either is shatters or the bearing goes and it makes noise or stops turning. the only other thing that might happen is the bolt retaining the tensioner might come loose but then the belt would become slack and the car wouldn't run at all.

you should also go to zxtuner.com and order the zetec timing tool kit, which comes with a cam brace and a locking pin for the crank at TDC. These are NECESSARY, doing timing without them is almost impossible.

no the cam tool and crank pin are not necessary to change the timing belt. if you set the engine to tdc and then mark everything you do not need any special tools to hold anything in place. the cams will turn half a tooth to a tooth with the timing belt off. all you have to do is line up your timing marks when putting the new belt on.


so again I would check the plugs and wires first before changing the timing belt. there is a good chance that is causing the bucking. to me the timing belt doesn't make sense. based on past posts its a all or nothing when it comes to a timing belt failure.

also fyi the timing belt tapping the top timing cover is normal.

 

[AliasJerk]

I based my information on my experience with the timing belt, I had a hell of a time getting the motor to time properly without the Timing Belt kit, took over 4 tries before I wouldn't throw codes for the timing being off. When I would throw a timing code I could accelerate softly with no problems, but as soon as I push the accelerator down a little harder the motor would buck like crazy, let off the gas; it would stop. Eventually it would end up throwing a code.

It is very possible that its only a spark issue, and thinking logically spark plugs and wires are a really good place to start. But he did mention there was a fairly noticeably noise coming from the timing belt section, also a worn out tensioner would cause the belt to be loose enough that upon stress it could jump a tooth; my 96 did this as well, less then 20 miles later it got louder, I limped the car home, timing belt snapped in my driveway, in all reality the timing belt might also be on its way out in the near future. How many miles are on the car?

Here is a good question, is your Check engine light on?

 

[BrApple]

I based my information on my experience with the timing belt, I had a hell of a time getting the motor to time properly without the Timing Belt kit, took over 4 trys before I wouldnt throw codes for the timing being off. When I would throw a timing code I could accelerate softly with no problems, but as soon as I push the accelerator down a little harder the motor would buck like crazy, let off the gas; it would stop. Evetually it would end up throwing a code.

iirc that was on your post 98 right? that is a whole other mess/deal with the vct. on a pre98 mark everything and put it back ...


my problem with your post is you jumped right to one thing and told him to replace the timing belt. that is alot more costly then plugs and wires. besides he said the noise was the belt hitting the cover and thats normal, even for a good belt.

 

[AliasJerk]

iirc that was on your post 98 right? that is a whole other mess/deal with the vct. on a pre98 mark everything and put it back ...


my problem with your post is you jumped right to one thing and told him to replace the timing belt. that is alot more costly then plugs and wires. besides he said the noise was the belt hitting the cover and thats normal, even for a good belt.

this was on my Post98; yes.

Understandably so; I posted that without fully thinking it out (which I have been doing lately).

I back up my timing statement because with high mileage it is possible that the belt jumped a tooth, however, I forgot the basic principle of "do the cheap and easy ones first" (heh heh allrightt). So like Brapple said, start at plugs and wires, and if you are throwing any Check engine light codes, get them read and post them, would help us determine if its a misfire, or a timing issue. More than likely its probably a misfire.

 

[bobdorit]

...I have seen the timing belt hits the cover in many car it cant be the sign of a loose belt. my 97 contour belt hits the cover at idle for more than year! specially when it is cold. my mitsubishi had the same for three years.
by touching the belt it is almost imposible to say if it is loose or not. the best is the mileage. Better to change after 100 grands, or if you suspect better to reinstal or instal a new one and check the tensioner bearing. I do not know about degree but if the belt slips even one tooth on camshaft sprocket it can cause the symptom you described. This was about the timing belt, before going to change or check the belt it is better to check the ignition system, spark plugs, wires and coil. and fuel system too.

 

[amc49]

Rough count of teeth on an incomplete pic shows somewhere around 40 teeth give or take to a cam sprocket, meaning one tooth worth roughly 9 degree error. '96 model was pre Hypalon belt right? Meaning belt suggested change interval at 60K? Later models were suggested 120K.

 

[BrApple]

Rough count of teeth on an incomplete pic shows somewhere around 40 teeth give or take to a cam sprocket, meaning one tooth worth roughly 9 degree error. '96 model was pre Hypalon belt right? Meaning belt suggested change interval at 60K? Later models were suggested 120K.

there was never a suggested change period. many references don't list any requirment. i recall someone talking with ford and they upped it to 100k ....


I changed mine at 104k and the belt was still in great shape. the pullies where shot on the other hand.

 

[amc49]

Don't you find it odd for a multimillion dollar corporation to let something like that slip by? Kinda like not giving auto trans fluid change intervals either. Go to the belt makers like I did, they will tell you.

 

[BrApple]

Don't you find it odd for a multimillion dollar corporation to let something like that slip by? Kinda like not giving auto trans fluid change intervals either. Go to the belt makers like I did, they will tell you.

i think it was pegged as lasting the life of the car ... and that would be 100k .... most people get new cars by then ... so what do they care about the second, third or more owners?