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Turbo question

also it would be a very good idea to make sure the 3L is running well/correctly before even thinking about adding a turbo to the mix.
 
79mustang351w said:
^^ Easy chief....some of us dont make thousands a week like you must. I have a 10 second Mustang and it wasnt built overnight. So I understand what he is saying here...it takes time...but little by little....paycheck by paycheck....he will get there. All the upgrades you have mentioned, my CSVT is getting before I install a turbo setup. No need to doubt people...where there is a WILL there is a WAY!!
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I'm definitely not in the "thousands of dollars a week" income bracket. I just have a low cost of living overhead and have saved money for a very very long time to do what I'm doing now.

There are always reasons to doubt people. I can't even begin to count how many experienced CSVT owners I've read about on CEG who knew full well about the shift tower bolt problem, clearly had the money to do the preventive fix on it and yet did nothing and it came back to haunt them via a destroyed transaxle.
 
GeorgeSVT said:
Ok so sorry to have disappointed you mrspindlelegs. But I don't have 300 right now as if u would have paid attention to what I just said I just rebuilt my engine and in the process of putting it in my car. So I don't have the extra cash right now. I'm just trying to do what I can. Im trying to get the facts of everything I need to know before I go and buy a turbo kit so I know I need and what to look for.
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GeorgeSVT,

You have not disappointed me at all. The way you originally stated the money limitation felt like the classic "I want more power yet I barely have what it takes to get the job done by using as many used parts as possible." That threw-up a red flag in me. Everybody else was basically cheering you on and offering positive advice on how to get the project done. Nobody was saying "Wait a second, have you really mapped this through cost-wise yet" because it sounds like you have already started on buying parts yet you haven't read-up on turbocharging yet.

I'm just trying to get you to step back and pause for a moment and reflect on this project before proceeding because this is by far one of the most expensive mods one can do on a CSVT.
 
Mrspindlelegs, I understand completely where u are coming from. No I'm not just tryin to get power quickly and impatiently, not that u said that but just stating, I'm trying to learn on what and how and why so I can fully understand how a turbo system works along with installing one and how to do it safely. Yes this car is my dd so that's why I'm really making sure in how to do this correctly. Yea I'm deffinately going to make sure my car is running perfectly before I even start to mod it. I'm tryin to get facts now so I can know what to do later. I'm not going to be able to get the turbo kit for maybe another year. I'm saving up and in the mean time making sure my car will be ready for a turbo kit like injectors and MAF and tuning and stability in the tranny and axles. I'm only planning on pushing 8-10 lbs of boost. I'm not planning on beating the living crap out of it. so that where I stand. I really appreciate everyones info and input and if there's other little things I should know that would great to hear.
 
Here is a little 'grocery' list of things you will want to consider. Some people will say this is more than is necessary, others will say its insufficient.

Engine
**You should be able to run with some saftey, depending on the tune, 8-10psi. This boost level will require some form of intercooling.
**It's worth noting that even at 8-10 psi, many turbo guys go thru at least 1 stock motor, some have run that boost level for a long time on their original, others have ran 2-3+ thru their cars in short order.
**Injectors - 39 or 42# depending on the fuel system in your car. I think you said 98, so 42#
**Fuel pump
**Maf to meter additional air flow

Drivetrain
**Upgraded clutch - the stock clutch is great, but you run past its clamping force at anything north of 5psi. I was able to run my 2.5L turbo at 7psi on the stock clutch and it held as long as I applied the power smoothly.
**Transmission - specifically the stock differential is weak. Again, I ran my 2.5L at 7psi on a stock trans with no issues. But I was very gental to it. If you want to get all the fun out of your 3L Turbo, plan to add an upgraded differential. Having this work done is over 1000 for parts and labor.
**Axels - I ran stockers thru all my various turbo setups without issue. If you want to drag the car, you will need to upgrade. But I think even a lively 3L Turbo at 10 wont chew up stockers if driven nicely.
**Roll restrictors - two roll restrictors on the car to limit the twisting of th motor. When you push the torque to 270ft/lbs and beyone, you need to have these firmed up to keep the engine from twisting too far. Also, these help prevent wheel hope as you lose traction, thus preserving axels and differentials.

Electectronics
**Xcalibrator (or other tuning/tune delivery device)
**Laptop to datalog the veheicle during tuning
**Dyno time (not required)

Guages
**Boost
**Wideband air fuel ratio
**EGT (I really liked having this, many will say not necessary and opt for oil pressure)
**Oil pressure

And the most important thing to have, patience! Its very difficult to have the whole car together and not be able to fully utilize it. This means driving it too often, or too hard, when there are tuning or other issues outstanding. Probably the biggest reason its not advisable to turbo a daily driver. It's not so much the reliablity, but the getting reliable.

I can speak directly from experience on this one. I boosted my stock 2.5L when it was my DD. It was a nightmare having to pussy foot the car to/from work. Stalling, backfiring, running pig rich. I was lucky to not have messed something up.

Just my opinion based on direct experience.
 
I haven't studied the number of turbo engine failures closely in the forums. Was the root cause of most failures due to the owner not building-up the short block with forged rods and forged pistons, i.e., suffering from spinning bearings or trashed pistons with OEM internals?
 
Thank you SHOgoFast. That is what I wanted to know. That did alot for me. I know putting a turbo on a dd isn't the best idea but I'm willing to take my chances. Plus I want an escape engine. What year escape engine would be the best for most power and torque. I heard they have the most power out of all stock duratecs.
 
Escape motors do not make more power than other 3Ls. What they offer is a little bit easier swap. And really, for the price premium you pay for an escape motor vs taurus/sable, i would just aim for the lowest mileage/shortest shelf time 05 sable/taurus.

Note: there may be cam difference between escape and taurus/sable. I would have to confirm. However, I think the consensus is to use SVT cams on turbo'd cars anyway. PM bhiggs about svt vs 3L cams in a turbo car. He has driven both. I only used SVT cams in my turbo builds so I don't have direct comparison.
 
If I get SVT cams then do I have To reprogram the computer. That's what I was told but I had a hard time believing him cause I didn't think u had to. And is there a difference between the 03 and 05 Taurus duratec 3.0
 
GeorgeSVT said:
Well what I mean is that if I get cams now. I'm not gonna be able to get a turbo kit for a while
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Cams dont cost anything. You take them out of your old SVT motor and put them into the 3L...Unless you want to get crazy and do what CSVT#49 is doing, then you can spend some change on cams.
 
SHOgoFast said:
Escape motors do not make more power than other 3Ls. What they offer is a little bit easier swap. And really, for the price premium you pay for an escape motor vs taurus/sable, i would just aim for the lowest mileage/shortest shelf time 05 sable/taurus.

Note: there may be cam difference between escape and taurus/sable. I would have to confirm. However, I think the consensus is to use SVT cams on turbo'd cars anyway. PM bhiggs about svt vs 3L cams in a turbo car. He has driven both. I only used SVT cams in my turbo builds so I don't have direct comparison.
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My Dad and I have both driven the different turbo cars. When he first bought his it was an SVT cam'd 3L that put out ~350whp, a couple of months after he bought it the motor blew up. Since then it has been a 3L cam'd turbo, we've never put it on the dyno, but the power band is dramatically different.

The 3L cams have gobs of torque, as soon as you hit the throttle it pulls hard, but runs out of steam around 5500-6K rpm/

The SVT cams are very linear, and they dont stop pulling. All the way to redline, very strong.

My Dad wants to swap his SVT cams back in this winter, but I am going to try and get out cars dyno'd together to see the actual difference between the two.
 
Cool. I think I'm going to stick with the SVT cams. Svttour was nice enough to supply a set of cams for me. So I just bought some racetronix/Delphi 42lb injectors. If I install those w/o the turbo and put an 80mm MAF it wouldn't mess with the computer and spit out more fuel that it should would it? The guy said they were flowmached. He. Said there deffinately not stock 42's. I didn't know if there was a specific kind of 42lb lightning injector I should get.
 
if you install larger injectors without tuning for them you will most certainly get to much fuel. installing a larger wont make a difference as the fuel tables arent designed for that MAF anyways so it would also have to be tuned in.
 
Ok so I won't install them untill i get the turbo on. So is the differential something that I have to take somewhere to get pit on or can I do it by myself? And does anyone know anybody who's getting rid if one or is new the best way to go with one if those?
 
Trans work is a bit tricky, some people have simply dropped in their upgraded diffs and had no issues. that is pure luck and I would not advise it with such an expensive part. You would be well served to hawk eye the classifieds section for somone selling a 'built' transmission. Or, there are some reputable people on here that can do them. Terry Haines (not a forum member) resides in grand rapids, MI and owns a trans shop. Additionally, livinsvt, on here also does trans work.
 
If you are not in any rush... do what I have been doing... do everything right the first time, buy the parts as you can afford them over time, do the work on the car as you have time, and don't take short cuts. Hell I started working on my car about Nov 09... it's still in pieces. I just now finished painting the chassis for crying out loud. I haven't even put the interior back in. However obviously you can't do it this way if it's your DD.

If you still plan to use this car as your DD, then I would suggest buying another engine and building that engine up first. If you have the engine built already then you could probably do an engine swap in a 4 day weekend and install your turbo setup as well. Sure you can bolt on stuff... but if you don't have a solid base to start from... don't expect to enjoy it to long.
 
Ya I completely understand. I mean I have a truck the I bought my girlfriend and I kinda repossessed it for a bit so I'm not completely strapped. Lol. I like to do everything right the first time. I had the heads completely rebuilt and milled so there will for surely be no problems. I was gonna use my tax returns next year for my turbo and in the mean time save for a diff and other stuff
 
Hey George, do you have any pictures of your Silver Frost SVT with the Euro wheels? I've been trying to decide between the 5-spokes and the Euros for my car.
 
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