V8 conversion

[Dyoel182]

In a lot of cases its easier to "build" you own car for a need rather than adapt a car. For years over on the mx6 boards people asked about rwd conversions and people always said they were working on them. To this day I'm not sure they ever did it.

 

[FIND]

the problem is ford doesnt have a engine that compares. 302's are cast iron and heavy, unless you spend big money for a aluminum block, and 4.6 are huge. an ls1 is a pushrod aluminum block v8 that makes tons of power and is light and compact. I am a ford guy more than most (at 25 years old, I have had 18 cars, and 15 have been ford), but I'm sorry, I dont let that blind me to the fact that the lsx series of engines are better for this type of swap. convince me otherwise, you cant.

A 4.6 would fit in the engine bay of a contour if you fabbed up a subframe. You wouldnt need an LS1.

the weight difference is nearly negligible between an LS1 with an aluminum block and a 302 with an iron block. They are both right around 500lbs with stock heads manifolds and transmissions. At least from what I remember anyways. I tried looking around for the answer but didnt come up with anything.

 

[turbo_fox]

A 4.6 would fit in the engine bay of a contour if you fabbed up a subframe. You wouldnt need an LS1.

I never said a 4.6 wouldnt fit, I said it was huge. I stand by that statement, a pushrod LSx engine is more compact and has larger displacement. it would be easier to fit. Lets face it, you can be a diehard ford guy but you still cant tell me honestly that a 4.6 is better than an ls1.

the weight difference is nearly negligible between an LS1 with an aluminum block and a 302 with an iron block. They are both right around 500lbs with stock heads manifolds and transmissions. At least from what I remember anyways. I tried looking around for the answer but didnt come up with anything.

yeah but a 302 is practically made of apple cores and old mexican newspapers. it cant handle lots of power and tuning the eec-iv is a pain (trust me) compared to lsx. plus dollar per HP a LSx is better. My friend has a LS powered miata that sports a 5.3L from a chevy truck that he got from the junkyard for under $1000, it just made 288 HP and 303 ft-lbs on the dyno saturday. Show me a 4.6 or 302 that does that for that $....

 

[bhiggs89]

I never said a 4.6 wouldnt fit, I said it was huge. I stand by that statement, a pushrod LSx engine is more compact and has larger displacement. it would be easier to fit. Lets face it, you can be a diehard ford guy but you still cant tell me honestly that a 4.6 is better than an ls1.



yeah but a 302 is practically made of apple cores and old mexican newspapers. it cant handle lots of power and tuning the eec-iv is a pain (trust me) compared to lsx. plus dollar per HP a LSx is better. My friend has a LS powered miata that sports a 5.3L from a chevy truck that he got from the junkyard for under $1000, it just made 288 HP and 303 ft-lbs on the dyno saturday. Show me a 4.6 or 302 that does that for that $....

And it would still be easier, more efficient, and cheaper to just put a 3L Turbo in it, and you would make a lot more power.

 

[turbo_fox]

And it would still be easier, more efficient, and cheaper to just put a 3L Turbo in it, and you would make a lot more power.

maybe peak power, but I bet it will be a lot faster with the v8.

see attached dyno graph, green is stock miata, blue is supercharged miata, purple is turbocharged miata, and red is 5.3L miata. Will a 3L turbo torque curve look like that, maybe, but for less than $1000, nope.

 

[wht02lightning]

the problem is ford doesnt have a engine that compares. 302's are cast iron and heavy, unless you spend big money for a aluminum block, and 4.6 are huge. an ls1 is a pushrod aluminum block v8 that makes tons of power and is light and compact. I am a ford guy more than most (at 25 years old, I have had 18 cars, and 15 have been ford), but I'm sorry, I dont let that blind me to the fact that the lsx series of engines are better for this type of swap. convince me otherwise, you cant.

Its not a matter of blindness. I just think its stupid to do. If you wanted to a V8 swap and use a LSx then why wouldnt you do it to a chevy?? I agree you could get better results, but I personally wouldnt ever consider it.

 

[wht02lightning]

I never said a 4.6 wouldnt fit, I said it was huge. I stand by that statement, a pushrod LSx engine is more compact and has larger displacement. it would be easier to fit. Lets face it, you can be a diehard ford guy but you still cant tell me honestly that a 4.6 is better than an ls1.



yeah but a 302 is practically made of apple cores and old mexican newspapers. it cant handle lots of power and tuning the eec-iv is a pain (trust me) compared to lsx. plus dollar per HP a LSx is better. My friend has a LS powered miata that sports a 5.3L from a chevy truck that he got from the junkyard for under $1000, it just made 288 HP and 303 ft-lbs on the dyno saturday. Show me a 4.6 or 302 that does that for that $....

I dont know what kind of drugs youve been on, but I really hope the day never comes when im impressed by 288hp. and I garuntee for 1000 bucks i can get a 302 and make that power. Im sure of it cause I can get 302's all day at the pick and pull for under 400.

 

[turbo_fox]

Its not a matter of blindness. I just think its stupid to do. If you wanted to a V8 swap and use a LSx then why wouldnt you do it to a chevy?? I agree you could get better results, but I personally wouldnt ever consider it.

you think its stupid, well then it must be stupid.....

AND It is a matter of blindness. I wouldnt do it to a chevy because I dont like chevys. just because i like the engine doesnt mean i like the cars. lumping it all together is blindness- by that same logic, any engine swap is bad, if you wanted a 3L why wouldnt buy a taurus? you do a 3L swap because the engine is better than the 2.5, and you like the contour. Does that mean using SVT focus brakes are bad? if you wanted focus braking power, buy a focus! My car has baer brakes which use 13" cobra PBR calipers, should I have bought a cobra instead? How is this different? because of brands? uh oh, goumba is using JAG parts on his AWD swap- must be stupid!!!

WOW, LOGIC!!!! If I wanted a v8 swap, wouldn't I pick the better engine?

 

[turbo_fox]

I dont know what kind of drugs youve been on, but I really hope the day never comes when im impressed by 288hp. and I garuntee for 1000 bucks i can get a 302 and make that power. Im sure of it cause I can get 302's all day at the pick and pull for under 400.

sounds good, what car can I pull and aluminum blocked 302 that makes 300 ft lbs from, please??


oh wait, you cant get a 302 from the junkyard that makes 288 HP and weighs the same as an aluminum block gm truck engine without any modifications and costs under $1000. what do I know about 302s, i only had a twin turbo 302 that made 400+ hp and 460 ft lbs...oh and the modified fox body mustangs on the same dyno day made 220hp at the wheels. not quite 288, is it?

apples to apples, please....

 

[royalblue]

ahhh bench racing :laugh:

 

[BrApple]

you think its stupid, well then it must be stupid.....

AND It is a matter of blindness. I wouldnt do it to a chevy because I dont like chevys. just because i like the engine doesnt mean i like the cars. lumping it all together is blindness- by that same logic, any engine swap is bad, if you wanted a 3L why wouldnt buy a taurus? you do a 3L swap because the engine is better than the 2.5, and you like the contour. Does that mean using SVT focus brakes are bad? if you wanted focus braking power, buy a focus! My car has baer brakes which use 13" cobra PBR calipers, should I have bought a cobra instead? How is this different? because of brands? uh oh, goumba is using JAG parts on his AWD swap- must be stupid!!!

WOW, LOGIC!!!! If I wanted a v8 swap, wouldn't I pick the better engine?

lmao, dead on.

how about all those fords out there that people have put chevy small blocks V8's in? personally I don't like the concept but I am sure there is a reason for it.

 

[turbo_fox]

lmao, dead on.

how about all those fords out there that people have put chevy small blocks V8's in? personally I don't like the concept but I am sure there is a reason for it.

this is the exact attitude why i stopped going on the mustang sites. pure lemmings.

lets explore deeper into things. why does a person prefer fords over chevy? probably cause they like the products ford puts out. fair enough, thats why i like fords. brand loyalty is common in the automotive industry. The thing is, in any other aspect of life, people dont do the same thing. if you like pepsi, does that mean you only can buy pepsi products? what if you want a delicious fresca? thats a coke product. would it make you stupid to buy that? im guessing no. if I am an auto enthusiast, and i really love my contour, except I want it to be a v8 and rwd, thats gonna be a bada$$ car. Why wouldnt I choose the best possible drivetrain I could for it? its going to be completely custom anyway, isnt it? are you telling me I have to use a ford engine just cause its a ford car? thats pretty stupid. Sure, you can make a 302 as light and powerful, but its gonna take work and money. If i put the same work and money into an LSx it would be even more powerful. its actually quite smart, if you ask me.

 

[FIND]

this is the exact attitude why i stopped going on the mustang sites. pure lemmings.

lets explore deeper into things. why does a person prefer fords over chevy? probably cause they like the products ford puts out. fair enough, thats why i like fords. brand loyalty is common in the automotive industry. The thing is, in any other aspect of life, people dont do the same thing. if you like pepsi, does that mean you only can buy pepsi products? what if you want a delicious fresca? thats a coke product. would it make you stupid to buy that? im guessing no. if I am an auto enthusiast, and i really love my contour, except I want it to be a v8 and rwd, thats gonna be a bada$$ car. Why wouldnt I choose the best possible drivetrain I could for it? its going to be completely custom anyway, isnt it? are you telling me I have to use a ford engine just cause its a ford car? thats pretty stupid. Sure, you can make a 302 as light and powerful, but its gonna take work and money. If i put the same work and money into an LSx it would be even more powerful. its actually quite smart, if you ask me.

I'm not saying you CANT put a GM block into a ford car. Put whatever in there that suits your needs. But, a 302 still weighs what an LSx weighs, so dont let that dissuade you. As far as money goes, an LSx is more powerful without modification than a 302, but, you are also paying a premium for that extra power. I can get used 302 or even 4.6 blocks for 400 and under. LSx motors are usually at a MUCH higher premium, so you can make up the cost difference between the two with a couple bolt ons and really end up with nearly the same kinda power. The difference between the LSx engines and 302 in the end is what you can do with basic bolt ons, in which the LSx beats the 302. But, like I said before, you are going to have just as much money into the LSx as you would a 302 to make the same power. So as far as I am concerned, either swap is equal in my eyes. One could say it is smart to put in the LSx cause with bolt ons you can beat a 302 with an equal amount of bolt ons.

I think the deciding factor for me would be the fact that it's easier to come by 5.0 donor cars. My little brother has a 5.0 cougar that he is never going to get running that I could get off of him if I had a car to do the swap into, had a new tranny, had the money to make the subframe, mounts, driveshaft, yadda yadda yadda. Course I would need a fuel tank too, a piggy back or stand-alone, custom rear end, front and rear suspension, and I would need to cut a tunnel for the transmission. Anyways, there is more, but most of you know that anyways, so I shall not continue. It would be an expensive swap. Even though almost everything that would need to be done is stuff I feel comfortable with doing myself.

BTW Fresca sucks

 

[turbo_fox]

I'm not saying you CANT put a GM block into a ford car. Put whatever in there that suits your needs. But, a 302 still weighs what an LSx weighs, so dont let that dissuade you. As far as money goes, an LSx is more powerful without modification than a 302, but, you are also paying a premium for that extra power. I can get used 302 or even 4.6 blocks for 400 and under. LSx motors are usually at a MUCH higher premium, so you can make up the cost difference between the two with a couple bolt ons and really end up with nearly the same kinda power. The difference between the LSx engines and 302 in the end is what you can do with basic bolt ons, in which the LSx beats the 302. But, like I said before, you are going to have just as much money into the LSx as you would a 302 to make the same power. So as far as I am concerned, either swap is equal in my eyes. One could say it is smart to put in the LSx cause with bolt ons you can beat a 302 with an equal amount of bolt ons.

I think the deciding factor for me would be the fact that it's easier to come by 5.0 donor cars. My little brother has a 5.0 cougar that he is never going to get running that I could get off of him if I had a car to do the swap into, had a new tranny, had the money to make the subframe, mounts, driveshaft, yadda yadda yadda. Course I would need a fuel tank too, a piggy back or stand-alone, custom rear end, front and rear suspension, and I would need to cut a tunnel for the transmission. Anyways, there is more, but most of you know that anyways, so I shall not continue. It would be an expensive swap. Even though almost everything that would need to be done is stuff I feel comfortable with doing myself.

BTW Fresca sucks

I agree with you for the most part (except fresca is awesome). The things that sway me to LSX are tuning and strength. the only reason a 302 is light is because it is weak. the LSx ecu is light years ahead of the ford a9l family, and would not require a piggy back or tuner (software can reflash the chevy ecu with no xcal or anything). lets face it, the ford windsor has been dead for over 10 years, the ls series is alive and well. based on that alone it tells you that the chevy is a better engine.

Bottom line, my whole point, is that it isnt stupid to put a chevy engine in a ford, but rather it is stupid to not put a better engine in just because of brand. and for the record, if I could pick any engine to put in there, it would be a DOHC 4.6, but that aint gonna fit...

question of the day: you are hooked up to a lie detector, which is hooked up to a gun pointed at your head. you are asked which is a better engine- ford windsor family or gm lsx family, what do you say?

 

[bhiggs89]

maybe peak power, but I bet it will be a lot faster with the v8.

see attached dyno graph, green is stock miata, blue is supercharged miata, purple is turbocharged miata, and red is 5.3L miata. Will a 3L turbo torque curve look like that, maybe, but for less than $1000, nope.

You may be able to find a 5.3L Chevy engine for under $1000, but how much time and money is it going to take to get it running in a contour?

You think something with less power (the V8) be a lot faster than something with more power (3LTurbo)?

 

[turbo_fox]

You may be able to find a 5.3L Chevy engine for under $1000, but how much time and money is it going to take to get it running in a contour?

not much

You think something with less power (the V8) be a lot faster than something with more power (3LTurbo)?

umm, yes? did you look at the dyno plot i posted? do you understand what makes a car accelerate? look at a dyno of a 3L turbo, it doesnt hit 200 ft-lbs until 3500 rpm. the 5.3L has 250 at 1700 RPM. you really think the 3L would be faster because it makes more peak power?

 

[bhiggs89]

not much




umm, yes? did you look at the dyno plot i posted? do you understand what makes a car accelerate? look at a dyno of a 3L turbo, it doesnt hit 200 ft-lbs until 3500 rpm. the 5.3L has 250 at 1700 RPM. you really think the 3L would be faster because it makes more peak power?

I would guarantee that a 3L Turbo would be faster than a 5.3L. Would the 5.3L offer a little better acceleration? Most likely

And yes I looked at the dyno plot.

 

[elraido]

not much




umm, yes? did you look at the dyno plot i posted? do you understand what makes a car accelerate? look at a dyno of a 3L turbo, it doesnt hit 200 ft-lbs until 3500 rpm. the 5.3L has 250 at 1700 RPM. you really think the 3L would be faster because it makes more peak power?

my (maybe dumb) question here is, do you want that tq that low on the plot on a car with traction issues?

 

[beyondloadedSE]

my (maybe dumb) question here is, do you want that tq that low on the plot on a car with traction issues?

If this Contour is RWD, I'm assuming theres going to be some big fatty slicks on the back. Traction issues solved.

Power under the curve wins.

 

[KyleQ]

Not sure why everything thinks it is so hard and impossible to do. It would be a very fun one off project to do just to be done. I could see a lot of plasma cutting on the firewall, floors and trunk. Full tube frame under the car (hidden by side skirts) 5.0 under the hood, probably carb'd to keep it simple, T-5 and a cv style driveshaft hooked to a 9" out of an early Bronco supported by coilivers in the factory strut towers with internal bracing. Who cares what motor goes in it as long as the intake clears the hood and the oil pan doesn't drag on the ground - I'd prefer Ford power over anything else though. Coilovers could go up front as well with more DOM bracing.

I see wacked out custom creations all of the time in the 4WD world and I know what can be done - a V8 RWD Contour isn't impossible to do.