Warmonger brake info/install thread

[KingpinSVT]

Please post issues advice here pertaining to the new warmonger brake kit. Here is what I have so far:

One thing I noticed on some of the bolt studs is that they are a bit thicker on the shank/head. When I test fitted the stud in the hub and then tried to install the bracket there was a bit of interference on the UPPER stud ONLY. This is easily solved by first installing the studs and brackets, then grinding the backside of the upper bolt stud so that the caliper mounting bracket clears when it is finally bolted in place.

If anyone has any specific issues pm me. Otherwise if you have any problems that you solve yourself with a simple solution then just post what it was and how you solved it.

I began mock up of one of the front brackets today. There is definitely interference with the upper stud and the caliper bracket (on mine at least). The stud head sticks out a visible amount past the mounting edge of the spacer. This is the only issue I have not yet addressed, as its time for some Gator football. Everthing else looks good, Im just going to break out the angle grinder tomorrow and knock a bit off the head of the stud until there is clearance.

The only other issue I ran into was intermittant rubbing of the caliper bracket and the rotor. I have cleaned up the inside of the caliper bracket, so that should no longer be an issue plus I still have to fix the stud issue before I can say the rotor is finished. With the caliper bracket alignment moving this way or that (because of the stud), I cant say its fixed one way or another anyway. I didnt remember what you posted about the stud until I was about to finish up for the day anyway.

However, so far so good. No surprises, you seem to have covered any possible issues pretty well ahead of time so I knew what to look for.

I have not yet started on the rear, so I have no advice to offer there yet.

This is somewhat in order of how you will encounter them:

First, my workspace:

Here is where I made room for the upper spacer on the spindle.

I also flatspotted the spacer a bit so that too much material wouldnt be removed from either the spindle or the spacer, just a little from both.

I then ran into problems with the caliper bracket hitting the upper stud (I have already hit it with the grinder in this pic).

Here you can see after being ground down it allows the caliper bracket to sit flush on the spacers without touching the stud. It doesnt look like it, but with backlighting there is a gap (although tiny) between the stud head and the caliper bracket.

I then ran into some problems with the rotor touching the inside of the caliper bracket. I removed the casting ridges as well as a bit more material for clearance. It doesnt take much. Also, as War has said, the spacers have a bit of play so you can wiggle the caliper bracket out a bit to create additional clearance.

Here is a pic after I cleaned up the inside.

You can see the touched up areas here.

When you look at yours, all the inside edges were round and as you can see mine are now squared off. In my case, this made the difference.


Hope that clears things up a bit.


EDIT: I finished the fronts. FWIW, my passenger side caliper bracket didnt have any interference problems with the rotor. I still cleaned it up, but I did not remove much material at all. So you may or may not run into the problem. Im thinking not catching the stud interference on the caliper bracket probably had something to do with it, because I addressed that first (ground it down) before mounting everything else up.

Now on to the rears!



Please, for your safety, wear a mask while grinding, especially on your new rear rotors if they are used. Even if they are new, its still not good to breath in all those metal filings. If they are used rotors, you will have tons of brake dust and rust buildup that flies everywhere when you are grinding the rotors and brackets (I dont think it would concern these vehicles, but your brake dust could potentially contain asbestos [sp?]). I wore a mask most of the time (always when cutting through rust and dust buildup), and judging by my boogers I still got a hefty load of nasty dust. If I get lung cancer, Im blaming it on this.

 

[Kremithefrog]

I didn't need a mask for the front but I am just using a dremel. Of course be careful which way your holding and grinding things, you don't want a spark in your eye. Latex gloves might be a good idea.:crazy:

So... is the rotor supposed to look like this after braking? Like the top half has worn the new rotor more than the bottom half. Crappy nightime cell phone pic:

 

[KingpinSVT]

I wore goggles, gloves, and a mask. Ive got interviews and such during the week, I cant have nasty fingernails! Even with the sparks going one way or another, the dust goes everywhere. The fronts werent too bad, youll see once you get to the rear and really have to cut through some crap.

As for your bedding issues, Im not sure. I cannot remember from the last time I changed my brakes. My guess is that its probably not normal, but Im not sure :shrug: . I would suggest going to the old forums and seeing if you can find somone with the same problem.

Did you re-grease your caliper pins and the like so that everything is sliding freely?

 

[warmonger]

I didn't need a mask for the front but I am just using a dremel. Of course be careful which way your holding and grinding things, you don't want a spark in your eye. Latex gloves might be a good idea.:crazy:

So... is the rotor supposed to look like this after braking? Like the top half has worn the new rotor more than the bottom half. Crappy nightime cell phone pic:

It may be that something isn't aligned right on your brakes.
Are BOTH sides like that?
Did you grind enough off the back of that top stud? The brake bracketry will flex a bit and if it interferes with anything it will not have even pad wear.

There should have been more than enough adjustment room to clear the caliper body from the intermediate bracket.
You will need to take more pictures and email them to me so I can examine what is going on.

 

[Kremithefrog]

Both sides are like that. I'll look at it more after work.

 

[BlackE1]

I think that the rear brakes will look like that due to the larger rotors. While the pad size did not increase. The reason that your rear braking will be increased even with the same size pads is the the force the pad apply to the rotor is futher out on the rotor making a larger moment.

 

[RandyCSVT]

I am going to be taking a weekend off to do this, but I want to make sure I have the right power tool. I want to do this with as few tools as possible. I thought about buying another dremel ( I gave mine to my dad), but not if it will take me forever. I think a good drill, 1/2 inch bit, drum sander bit, and grinding bit will do it all. Anybody have any good Drill recommendations? I bought a cordless drill before but it wasn't strong enough and died on me when I tried to cut through any metal. I can shop at sears, lowes, and homedepot. Good bit recommendations would be appreciated too.

I know warmonger recommended a few different tools, but I can only afford one multipurpose tool at the moment.

 

[Kremithefrog]

I think that the rear brakes will look like that due to the larger rotors. While the pad size did not increase. The reason that your rear braking will be increased even with the same size pads is the the force the pad apply to the rotor is futher out on the rotor making a larger moment.

That's the front. And yes there will be some area left untouched by the pad, but (I know the pic sucks) that's not what it is. The swept area top half looks like it's getting more pressure than bottom half. I'm about to go look at it.

Randy, I used an old drill and just the cheapest bit I saw at lowes (which was still around $10). Just keep it spinning fast and go very slowly.

 

[BlackE1]

oh i am sorry i must have missed where it said front.

 

[KingpinSVT]

I think if you were limited to one tool I would get a dremel. Can reach in tighter spots than a drill, plus you have more overall versatility. I think a high speed rotory tool will serve you much better in doing some of the grinding, such as the rear rotors.

You dont have a drill already?

 

[warmonger]

I am going to be taking a weekend off to do this, but I want to make sure I have the right power tool. I want to do this with as few tools as possible. I thought about buying another dremel ( I gave mine to my dad), but not if it will take me forever. I think a good drill, 1/2 inch bit, drum sander bit, and grinding bit will do it all. Anybody have any good Drill recommendations? I bought a cordless drill before but it wasn't strong enough and died on me when I tried to cut through any metal. I can shop at sears, lowes, and homedepot. Good bit recommendations would be appreciated too.

I know warmonger recommended a few different tools, but I can only afford one multipurpose tool at the moment.

The new bolt studs are designed NOT to need to drill the mounting ears out to 1/2". Just use a round rat-tail file to enlarge the hole a little bit as necessary to put the studs in.

I've had my Makita Corded drill for 11 years now and it still works great thought the chuck is a tad worn.

 

[RandyCSVT]

I think if you were limited to one tool I would get a dremel. Can reach in tighter spots than a drill, plus you have more overall versatility. I think a high speed rotory tool will serve you much better in doing some of the grinding, such as the rear rotors.

You dont have a drill already?

I moved from RI to FL a little over a year ago, and I left most of my tools with my dad. I had a dremel with every bit imaginable. I forgot it at home, and when I went back to RI for christmas he was already attached to it. It would have been like taking candy from a baby.

 

[Kremithefrog]

The new bolt studs are designed NOT to need to drill the mounting ears out to 1/2". Just use a round rat-tail file to enlarge the hole a little bit as necessary to put the studs in.

Umm, is this gonna cause my brakes to fall off? I looked through the GB thread before installing them and thought I downloaded the last instructions posted and they said to drill, so I drilled.

And I think it was the back of the top stud causing that problem. I'll know for sure when I finish tomorrow.


And do not use just a dremel. It takes forever and is aggravating.

 

[RandyCSVT]

does anybody have the latest version of the directions. The ones I have also say to drill a 1/2 inch hole. I want to make sure I know all the right steps before I even attempt this.

 

[KingpinSVT]

I also already drilled. I did not see any update saying not to. I still had to pull the upper stud through most of the way through the ridged area, but the lower stud went further through. I still had to pull it through a little, but not that much.

I hope this wont cause problems. . . .

 

[Kremithefrog]

My top stud on the passenger side actually was turning (I don't have a suitable torque wrench to check torque, but I know how tight things can be, and I'm keeping it within a wheel studs limits) when being completely tightened. I think I'll try to get some vice grips (on the now, very grounded down stud head) and tighten it just a bit more. I think as long as the nuts are tight, there shouldn't be a problem.

 

[warmonger]

No worries.

No worries.

Don't worry all. The knurling on the stud is supposed to make it tight so it does not turn while tightening, thats it. If you can still torque it down then you will be fine.

If you precisely drilled the hole with the 1/2" bit the stud would still lock in. THe trouble is that many times the drill bit will wobble on a hand drill and the hole ends up bigger. In that case it may leave the stud a bit loose.

If you can't actually torque the stud down you can try a number of things. THe simplest is to take a piece of aluminum foil about 1/2" wide andwrap it around the studs shoulder, pull tight and flatten it to the stud with your fingers. Then press the stud in like normal. It should hold pretty good.

Last resort, I have SAE hardened nuts from when I was using the 1/2" studs so we can still swap in a 1/2" bolt stud.


**Kremit**
If you did not make enough clearance for the top spacer either on the hub mounting ear and/or flat spotting the spacer, you may be causing the caliper to position at an angle on the rotor.

The first thing you must do on your setup is disassemble one side and look at the inside of the rotor to see if you have a band lower down on the caliper, or further in radially. IF that is the case then you are tilted a bit and you must go back in and find out where the interference is.
Also you never sent me any pictures. You need to address these issues quickly so you don't wear the pad abnormally.

 

[KingpinSVT]

I kinda figured if it pulled through and held than I figured it would be OK, just wanted some reassurance.

On another note, I just want to double check some things. First, when the caliper brackets are mounted during the rotor test fit, if everything is snugged down and nothing touches, it wont be an issue later right? Some of my clearances are small, but they are there. Its more an issue on the rear.

Second involves the rear rotors. How much sag is necessary? The bottom of my rotors kick out when I let them go, but not that far. It seems the hub diameter in the middle is really the limiting factor. Should I worry about that?

 

[warmonger]

I kinda figured if it pulled through and held than I figured it would be OK, just wanted some reassurance.

On another note, I just want to double check some things. First, when the caliper brackets are mounted during the rotor test fit, if everything is snugged down and nothing touches, it wont be an issue later right? Some of my clearances are small, but they are there. Its more an issue on the rear.

Second involves the rear rotors. How much sag is necessary? The bottom of my rotors kick out when I let them go, but not that far. It seems the hub diameter in the middle is really the limiting factor. Should I worry about that?

That's sounds like the perfect amount of sag. As long as they don't stay in place when you let them go and you feel confident they are loose, you're good.

As far as clearances, It should be good as you say. However, parts flex can be expected a little. The main thing will be the pad wear. As you drive you will see how the pad beds into the rotor and if it is off then you will want to check and see if anything doesn't have enough clearance.

BigJim had a perfect example when we were finalizing the shape of the front bracket for clearnce of the caliper piston body.

 

[KingpinSVT]

Ive checked the clearance between the piston body and front bracket, its fine. No touching there. Im about to go start the last corner. Yay!