Yup, it probably would. Not by much, but it would. OR I could keep it slammed, and look good while still being quick. Seems like a pretty easy decision :shrug:
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Choosing new suspension setup...
- Thread starter CSVT#49
- Start date
Yup, it probably would. Not by much, but it would. OR I could keep it slammed, and look good while still being quick. Seems like a pretty easy decision :shrug:
bensenvill
Hard-core CEG'er
the fronts on the D2's can not be raised anywhere close to stock ride height. About the highest I have been able to get mine is still a 2+ inch drop. The rears on the other hand you can go way above stock ride height.
svt_fomoco
CEG'er
I have a BAT kit with Eibach springs. I drive my car every day and the BAT Eibach setup works well even on the rough, broken up streets around central Michigan.
striker2
Official CEG Vendor
Heres the drawing i did based off the best measurements i could get. this is with Konis struts and coilovers with the ride height set about 2" (IIRC) lower than stock.
as you can see the dark lines (where its at right now) are both pointed downward, so much so that it would have taken 2 full sheets on either side of that one just to find their intersections :shocked: the roll center (RC) i set was being generous as its probably well below ground level.
The pencil marks are where everything would be if you simply lowered the ball joint about 2" with a roll center adjuster (some may call it a bump steer adjuster). as you can see the RC is much closer to the center of gravity (CG). you can get the same effect by raising the car back to the stock ride height however you then lose the added benefit of the lower CG.
Also, i am working with a local company to get some basic RCA's made up. they would be just a basic spacer to push the ball joint back down. Depending on the price and the amount of interest here i would most likely be able to convince them to make several sets.
I figured as much. I raised them up a good inch from where they were and was nearly to the top :help:. I think ive got the pre-load on one of them messed up, need to play with threading the whole unit instead of the collar.
TRicker
Hard-core CEG'er
i went with stock svt struts and eibach springs. not the best for a drop, but the sportline springs are only a 1" drop. handling is intense now. its got a stock feel rebound and "cushiness" for about 1" of suspension travel, then the spring rate of the eibachs can be felt and it feels stiff. i think a softer suspension setup (compared to B&G and such) is good for daily/occasional track use. i dont want my car rattling much. my next step is going to be a full set of poly bushings for the sway bars and maybe a bigger rear bar. i do wish i could get strut tower braces for both the front and the back though!
(ps. mike you gotta get a 3L soon too. we can do it in a weekend)
(ps. mike you gotta get a 3L soon too. we can do it in a weekend)
CSVT#49
Addicted CEG'er
So where have you guys picked up your D2 setups? Which is better the KSport or the D2's? Also is the RR version that much better then the normal version (ie is it really worth the extra money for what I'd be doing)?
Tyler - When I finish building my Camaro engine I'll worry about the SVT powertrain.
Tyler - When I finish building my Camaro engine I'll worry about the SVT powertrain.
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TRicker
Hard-core CEG'er
Mike- just saying, you have everything you need just get a 3L block and we'll do it up quick. it'll be easier to do the 3L with the suspension out.
think about it. 3L+new suspension+wheels+already built trans= unkillable contour like new. i know your car made 189 WHP with the 2.5L but you need a 3L!
i love finally having somethin to nag at you about!
think about it. 3L+new suspension+wheels+already built trans= unkillable contour like new. i know your car made 189 WHP with the 2.5L but you need a 3L!
i love finally having somethin to nag at you about!
CSVT#49
Addicted CEG'er
Mike- just saying, you have everything you need just get a 3L block and we'll do it up quick. it'll be easier to do the 3L with the suspension out.
think about it. 3L+new suspension+wheels+already built trans= unkillable contour like new. i know your car made 189 WHP with the 2.5L but you need a 3L!
Well man that Camaro has been sitting untouched for about 3-4 years. I have all the parts for it already (well minus my $1000 heads). I need to get that thing finished for Carcraft Summer Nats come July.
The SVT is just going to get what it needs in the time being. Right now it's suspension. Then the lights then the forced induction. I've got to many damn projects going on right now especially with all the house stuff (basement, additional garage, fireplace, etc).
Oh and by the way I just looked at my dyno sheet and it's 176.1whp and 151ftlbs... although 189 would have been nice. However that was taken without an intake or the WR y-pipe.
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CSVT#49
Addicted CEG'er
Yea thats where I found the Ksports, at UltraRev. Although I did find them for the same price through another company with a much, much lower shipping price. I can have them to my door for $863 versus the $895.
So looks like I'll be getting the Ksports standard coilover kit. How many people are running this kit right now? Any installation issues come up?
starjammir
Hard-core CEG'er
I am....
I thought it was a bia to install them on my car. It seemed either the hubs were a tad to small where the strut goes into it, or the strut was a tad to big. I had to take the fronts off and pound the strut in. The rears I hung with the two bolts from the top and hit the hub from the bottom onto the strut. No other real issues just a lot of time to figure that out.
I thought it was a bia to install them on my car. It seemed either the hubs were a tad to small where the strut goes into it, or the strut was a tad to big. I had to take the fronts off and pound the strut in. The rears I hung with the two bolts from the top and hit the hub from the bottom onto the strut. No other real issues just a lot of time to figure that out.
CSVT#49
Addicted CEG'er
I did some searching and people thought there were design issues with the Ksport. Hopefully Rara will chime in on that one.
Starjammer... so your saying the ends of the struts where to large to fit into the spindle assembly? Did you pry the opening up a little bit where the bolt goes through.
Starjammer... so your saying the ends of the struts where to large to fit into the spindle assembly? Did you pry the opening up a little bit where the bolt goes through.
bensenvill
Hard-core CEG'er
ya rara was complaining [for both ksport and d2] that there was no guide slot [or whatever his term was] where the strut attaches to the hub assembly... it would definitely be nice to have there.
starjammir, what your saying is a bit concerning. the strut should never slide in and out without a fair amount of effort... especially if there is no guide to lock it to the hub assembly. They seem to have very narrow tolerances on easy to assemble and near impossible to hammer on. I spray painted my rear hub assemblies and even a few coats of rustolium made it impossible to insert the [stock] strut... I had to take some sand paper and remove the paint from that area. If its too easy, you might want to add a bit of spray paint... better solution would to be to have that guide welded onto the strut [was thinking of doing that myself].
the other issue rara had with both the setups was the connector for the sway bar arms, in the fact that they way they lock down... or potential lack there of.
starjammir, what your saying is a bit concerning. the strut should never slide in and out without a fair amount of effort... especially if there is no guide to lock it to the hub assembly. They seem to have very narrow tolerances on easy to assemble and near impossible to hammer on. I spray painted my rear hub assemblies and even a few coats of rustolium made it impossible to insert the [stock] strut... I had to take some sand paper and remove the paint from that area. If its too easy, you might want to add a bit of spray paint... better solution would to be to have that guide welded onto the strut [was thinking of doing that myself].
the other issue rara had with both the setups was the connector for the sway bar arms, in the fact that they way they lock down... or potential lack there of.
TRicker
Hard-core CEG'er
big screwdriver in the slot on the hub will aid in getting them on. i pounded my screwdriver in there to spread it a little, turned the strut upside down, and tapped the hub onto the strut while i held the strut. works slick, but you gotta fight the screwdriver to get it back out
big screwdriver in the slot on the hub will aid in getting them on. i pounded my screwdriver in there to spread it a little, turned the strut upside down, and tapped the hub onto the strut while i held the strut. works slick, but you gotta fight the screwdriver to get it back out
Mike,
You should probably pick up the right tools for the job, like a prybar, or a chisel... not a screwdriver. Otherwise this is exactly what you do, just to spread the knuckle out a bit to get the strut to slide in. You will still need to do a fair amount of pounding on the bottom to get it to seat.
Ben is correct about Rara's complaint, but with how tight mine fit in the knuckle... Im not too worried.
Also you may consider doing what I did. I installed the rear struts with the adjuster rods inside the strut. otherwise you wont be able to adjust them once they are in the car. I just need to buy a new one to adjust the fronts.
Rara
Hard-core CEG'er
I had two main design issues with the Ksports.
1. No retention tab for the strut to knuckle. Stock, and most aftermarket struts have a tab that drops down into the slot in the knuckle, and the pinch bolt passes through a hole in the tab to prevent the strut from pulling out of the knuckle. Now, normal loading of the strut is in the opposite direction of pulling the strut out of the knuckle, so its not LIKELY to be an issue, but, under the right circumstances, such as a hard impact to the wheel, or a very rough road, could lead to the two coming apart. Again, not likely, but the severity if it occured is VERY HIGH, most likely resulting in a serious crash, and a totalled car and potential injuries.
2. Poor sway bar end link mounts. The retention of the sway bar end link mounts is not solid at all, it consists of a threaded sleeve witht he mount attached, and a locking collar above and below also threaded to the strut body. If the locking collars loosen at all, the mount is free to rotate around the strut and into the wheel envelope, which may lock up the wheel and result in a crash. This one is far more likely to occur than item #1 above. Many coilover shock makers use this style of design, and it scares me. Koni uses them for the struts on the Koni Challenge Mustangs that we run, and I've seen two $140k Mustang race cars destroyed because of that design. On our cars we have since made some additional changes to ensure that the swaybar mount can not possibly move. A couple of options are to use red locktite on the swaybar sleeve and on the locking collars, and to use an additional locking collar both above and below to prevent the first locking ring from loosening. We also inspect them and retighten them after EVERY session on track, which is basically after every hour or so of driving.
Those are my design concerns with the Ksports, and both are relatively easy to fix if you have some suspension knowledge, common sense, and some fabrication resources.
My other issues with them are they lower the car too much for the stock geometry, and that they are too harsh for street use. Though, as much as they lower the car, you probably want them extremely stiff, because the easiest bandaid for poor suspension geometry is make the spring so stiff that the suspension doesn't move
not a very enjoyable ride though, lol.Rara
Hard-core CEG'er
Well, my spax struts fit tightly into the knuckle as well, right up until the powdercoat got scratched up, then they would slip right in and out. A lot of it depended on how much the knuckle was "torqued" relative to the axis of the strut.
striker2
Official CEG Vendor
Rara, did you see my post regarding suspension geometry earlier in this thread? what are you thoughts? id your on NECO you can find my whole thread there.
bensenvill
Hard-core CEG'er
thanks rara for clearing up my wording/terms, your infinitely better at explianing that.
and yes, super stiff springs will compensate for alot of other deficiencies. The D2 springs I have make both the sway bars redundant [had been driving around for quite some time without rear sway bar endlinks]. I havent had any issues with the collars for the front end links but am very careful to check them. The additional locking collars are a great idea and something that I will look into [and just run without a front swaybar in the mean time]
and yes, super stiff springs will compensate for alot of other deficiencies. The D2 springs I have make both the sway bars redundant [had been driving around for quite some time without rear sway bar endlinks]. I havent had any issues with the collars for the front end links but am very careful to check them. The additional locking collars are a great idea and something that I will look into [and just run without a front swaybar in the mean time]