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NPG Duratec 3.5L block for Contours, Cougars & Mystiques

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mrspindlelegs

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I'm putting this in the Duratec Performance forum since it doesn't quite fit the 3.0L forum. Take a look at what just popped-up over on the NPG website - 3.5L Duratec V6s for our cars:

http://nautilusperformance.com/perf...-duratec-35l-engine-block/category_pathway-65

NPG just did a website upgrade so you may need to clear your browser's cache memory to view the new site (especially with FireFox).

Does this sound like a Duratec 3.0L block that has been bored-out and resleeved to you guys? The description makes me think this is the case but I thought it was not really feasible to do this on Duratec V6s due to the manufacturing process used to make them. This info is very fresh so information is extremely limited at the moment.

A 4.0L Duratec motor is supposedly in the works too.

Your thoughts?
 
I just dont see the point. A 3L turbo is still going to put down waay more power for the money. And even a 4L turbo making 8000whp is cool I guess if you want bragging rights and the ability to burn a set of tires off from 100-200 in a couple seconds (if your dumb enough to go 200 in a contour that is). I would like to see them putting all the R&D into parts that people want, like long tube headers, or suspension parts etc.

Edit: ^ I was still typing when you posted, forgot about the noble guys, that makes sense. So all this motor work is directed towards noble and rossion owners?
 
Hey
Just give you some more details we have the block right now to a 3.5 liter setup and yes we resleeved the OEM block with stronger sleeves. We also putting in a firing ring around the block for high boosted cars. We currently have the NA setup using 11.1 CR pistons and offer 8.5:1 CR too. We have custom head gaskets being made once i finish the CAD drawing on the heads and and block. Also we had the heads check on a flow bench stock really was nice numbers for stock setup. We did some variation of the porting which we are headed to recheck tomorrow and once we nailed the best port out we will probe the entire ports to put in CAD. The 5 axis machine will be making the heads for us. Also I primary target was the Rossion and the Nobles for the market but of course we will have some people here dipping into the larger displacement motors. The power output will be 300hp on the 3.5 with all supporting mods and the high compression pistons. Once I finish up the 3.5 liter motor for the customer I will build a 3.7 liter motor just on bore then do a stroked 3.7 to get to a 4.0 block for the extreme guys. Remember a over square more makes more horsepower than stroke alone. We have so many things in the works right now even comp cams etc...... stay tuned guys joey
 
FastFord said:
I just dont see the point. A 3L turbo is still going to put down waay more power for the money. And even a 4L turbo making 8000whp is cool I guess if you want bragging rights and the ability to burn a set of tires off from 100-200 in a couple seconds (if your dumb enough to go 200 in a contour that is). I would like to see them putting all the R&D into parts that people want, like long tube headers, or suspension parts etc.
Click to expand...

You may say that but I have two Mazda 6 guys with money down and many more not everyone wants to have a turbo or can even have one due to emissions so we are satisfying all the customers on every platform even the $100k cars who will pay for the mods. Thansk Joey
 
BurritaSVT said:
You may say that but I have two Mazda 6 guys with money down and many more not everyone wants to have a turbo or can even have one due to emissions so we are satisfying all the customers on every platform even the $100k cars who will pay for the mods. Thansk Joey
Click to expand...

Got it. I really like the idea of high compression all motor power. Keep us updated with the progress!
 
Very interesting. Here are a couple questions while I ponder this newest offering some more:

1. Do you open up the combustion chamber to match the bore diameter of the resleeved block? If not, the 3.5L long block will be like a 3.0L hybrid. If you do open up the combustion chambers to match the bore, how confident are you that there is enough material left in the head to handle heat dissipation? Chronic head warpage/head gasket failure would be a bummer.

2. What fuel injectors are needed for a 3.5L NA block. I'm thinking that the 24# injectors are no longer big enough. I don't know my injectors and how to calculate sizing well enough on the Duratec V6 motors. If necessary, are there larger injectors available that have the correct spray pattern like what is found in a 2005 Escape 3.0L motor (obviously thinking of using the 2005 LIM also)?

3. Have you come perilously close to compromising any coolant or oil passages in the block when performing the resleeving process? Note: same applies to the heads if you opened up the combustion chambers.

4. A lot of people love the ST220 UIM setup but I have yet to be convinced that it has good return on investment (ROI) vs. using a 2005 Escape UIM for power output. However, jumping to 3.5L displacement might change the situation. Your thoughts?

5. Any thoughts on minimum throttle body i.d. that should be run on the 3.5L setup?

6. MAF minimum i.d. requirements?
 
Just to give you guys some something to neat to think about the 370Z guys are already hitting 400hp on all motor trust me I hired a guy who specailizing the nissan stuff the duratec engine are built just as well or even better. They have jaguar engines overseas makign 420hp right now V6 duratec 3.4 liter modifiied heavily without half the displacement we are headed too. I will make spring zing this year coming I am going to remove the turbo setup and bring the at least the 3.7 liter hopefully the crank is done by then too. joey
 
mrspindlelegs said:
Very interesting. Here are a couple questions while I ponder this newest offering some more:

1. Do you open up the combustion chamber to match the bore diameter of the resleeved block? If not, the 3.5L long block will be like a 3.0L hybrid. If you do open up the combustion chambers to match the bore, how confident are you that there is enough material left in the head to handle heat dissipation? Chronic head warpage/head gasket failure would be a bummer.

2. What fuel injectors are needed for a 3.5L NA block. I'm thinking that the 24# injectors are no longer big enough. I don't know my injectors and how to calculate sizing well enough on the Duratec V6 motors. If necessary, are there larger injectors available that have the correct spray pattern like what is found in a 2005 Escape 3.0L motor (obviously thinking of using the 2005 LIM also)?
3. Have you come perilously close to compromising any coolant or oil passages in the block when performing the resleeving process? Note: same applies to the heads if you opened up the combustion chambers.

4. A lot of people love the ST220 UIM setup but I have yet to be convinced that it has good return on investment (ROI) vs. using a 2005 Escape UIM for power output. However, jumping to 3.5L displacement might change the situation. Your thoughts?
5. Any thoughts on minimum throttle body i.d. that should be run on the 3.5L setup?

6. MAF minimum i.d. requirements?
Click to expand...

I was thinking of getting the 3.0 upper can support great power because the runners are large enough and we have a 70mm TB made I will post pics up on the site by Sunday designed for the setup.

The company sleeving the block has done this for 65 years and they are going to cut till they go through the inner liner so we can use a dry liner. The great part about our block we have a closed deck one of the stronger block they have seen for V6 setups. My only concern is coolant temps but we can resolve this too.

The 24#s we made 275whp on the inejctors at 60 psi pressure no problems there.


We have a 5 axis CNC machine to our disposal but .272" OD bore isn't much differnce to worry about warpage we never have suffered from warped heads yet. The heads are very well designed and the valves are realy large for most 3.5 liter motor the stock heads flwo enough power for 375hp NA right now I will post up the flow chart on the site this weekend along with the new results tomorrow hopefully.

MAF can support 300whp you are good there too. Joey
 
How much are you expecting the 3.7 to gain over the 3.0 with the same mods? Any price difference between the 3.7 and 3.5? This is a great choice for those of us looking for all motor in track cars which seem to be popping up a bit more. I guess I came into this thread with a negative attitude about the tune on my car, although the 3L turbo will still make more power for the money simply because of how cheap a 3L is.
 
the 3.5 liter was a guaranteed bore size but until I get a 100% okay on we can go to a 98mm bore when they mill out the block we want to make sure we don't got through the casting on the waterjacket to keep it a dry sleeve because of price mostly and the dry sleeves are stronger too. The price will be the same maybe a few dollars on cost of materials on the new sleeves. Joey
 
mrspindlelegs said:
Good point about heat dissipation in general. I know CSVT#49 investigated getting a custom radiator built by Griffin at one point for his monster Turbo project but it sounds like that never came to fruition.
Click to expand...

;)

I still have the radiator to send to them, but they want money down for the R&D. No one wanted to put the money down for a GB... so I would have to front it myself... which I may end up doing if time allows.
 
i understand the whole "MORE POWER IS BETTER" thing, cause im the same. but you gotta think, when does it get to the point of useless power. mikes car will probly be the only car with usable power because he's putting the money where its needed. but having that much power and nothing to do with it is pointless. where are you gonna use the power at?
 
i for one would use it on course. with the super charger i get weight penalty of 250lbs added to my minimum weight. if i were able to go with any of these motors my minimum weight would be lower.
 
When I first saw this, I was thinking they were building these bigger motors for turbo applications which would be ridiculous in our platform, but like Jaged said this is a perfect option for those that want more power without having to deal with boost setups, theres nothing like all motor power especially on a road course.
 
We know right now the 3.7 liter Stock in the mustang makes 305hp without power adders so we are are very confident we will reach 325hp range. Right now I am getting the aluminum 3.0 Taurus manifolds milling out the port to 70mm it will need this to reach our 400hp goal on the 4.0 liter and we will cut the plenum and port the runner inside with our 5 axis machine and do airflow measrements and then add a cap to add larger plenum for more volume. The manifolds will also replace the Noble and Rossion issues where they are splitting the intakes now. We are headed to the PRI event tomorrow so we will talk more to comp cams about the scanning the cams and new firmer lashers. The turbo is a very fun car trust me but on the road course the power delivery on the NA will be faster due to the car geometry and handling. Joey
 
I could see dropping 10G's on a new power plant for the SVT. I could see me in divorce court after. And I could see the judge awarding her the car...

Other than that, I see LOTS of awesome in NPG's work. Turbos make the engine compartment look pretty cool. Not worth the added hassles, though, unless it's a GNR, IMHO. I'm looking at a 3L build next year some time, shooting for 225+ at the wheels (yes, I aim high). Nothing ground breaking, just good reliable quick transportation. If I were building a racer, one of these new blocks would be the way to go. The old adage 'There's no replacement for cubic displacement' still holds true...
 
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