Finally doing a 3L

[muntus]

hyrbid in the 7+ years i've been here has always been 3l block,svt heads and manifold/tb. than you have your straight 3l,and your ported 3l,which could be called a ported hybrid if you use svt cams,3l heads and block,and svt manifolds:crazy:

Why would a port matched 3L(3L block with 2.5L heads and 2.5L intakes) be called a hybrid if you use svt cams? That's just confusing.:crazy:


edit: I just made a new thread that addresses some of these terms. http://www.contour.org/ceg-vb/showthread.php?t=35517

 

[Pudmunkie]

Why would a port matched 3L(3L block with 2.5L heads and 2.5L intakes) be called a hybrid if you use svt cams? That's just confusing.:crazy:


edit: I just made a new thread that addresses some of these terms. http://www.contour.org/ceg-vb/showthread.php?t=35517

Because its not port matched.... its a hybrid.

TO BE PORTMATCHED YOU CANNOT HAVE 2.5 LITER HEADS.

How hard his this concept?

 

[muntus]

OOps!

 

[Big Jim]

Because its not port matched.... its a hybrid.

TO BE PORTMATCHED YOU CANNOT HAVE 2.5 LITER HEADS.

How hard his this concept?

How do you define port matching? Is the port matching I have done to countless small block Chevies, Fords, and large block Fords not really port matching because I used stock heads and manifolds? Get real. Don't make up your own definitions.

 

[SoopaCooga]

Guys, it seems we're talking past each other. As old timers, we all know what is meant here whether or not it is said correctly.

"Port matching" is frequently mentioned as the means by which to mate a 2.5L UIM to 3.0L heads. As Jim points out, you could port match 3.0 heads to a 3.0 block; however, people seldom talk about doing that here. I believe Pudmunkie was trying to find a label that contrasted with "hybrid 3L."

Although the usage of the term "hybrid" is truly arbitrary, in order to minimize confusion, this community has defined a "hybrid 3L" as any 3L engine whose heads are not from a 3L engine. Most commonly, this term connotes 2.5L heads on a 3L block.

Similarly, the terms "straight 3L swap" and "full 3L swap" have been defined by this community to describe a particular combination of block, heads, and intake manifold.

 

[muntus]

How do you define port matching? Is the port matching I have done to countless small block Chevies, Fords, and large block Fords not really port matching because I used stock heads and manifolds? Get real. Don't make up your own definitions.

I really think it's a discussion on semantics. Port matching, as a verb, means what you have done to various engines. A "Port Matched 3.0L" as a noun, does not mean the verb "to port match."

 

[SoopaCooga]

I really think it's a discussion on semantics. Port matching, as a verb, means what you have done to various engines. A "Port Matched 3.0L" as a noun, does not mean the verb "to port match."

Yes, it's about semantics (i.e. meaning). Jim's point was that the adjective "port matched" - when applied to a motor - does not, per se, (i.e. in itself) inform us of the type of heads installed.

 

[Pudmunkie]

How do you define port matching? Is the port matching I have done to countless small block Chevies, Fords, and large block Fords not really port matching because I used stock heads and manifolds? Get real. Don't make up your own definitions.

Jim,

Nothing but respect for you, but you need to do some learnin' . While I appreciate you stroking my ego saying I invented the term port matching you are mistaken. While I realize that you can port match ANY head to any block you need to understand the context. Here on CEG a port matched 3 liter is a term dubbed by the forum old timers that has carried on and refers to matching the 2.5 split ports to the 3 liter oval ports.

Eventually people will realize that CEG has its own retarded terms that should not really be taken 'seriously' out of CEG.

:shrug:

 

[Pudmunkie]

Yes, it's about semantics (i.e. meaning). Jim's point was that the adjective "port matched" - when applied to a motor - does not, per se, (i.e. in itself) inform us of the type of heads installed.

Sorry, but yes it does! HERE on CEG Port matched DOES tell you what kind of heads were used.... 3 liter heads.

If you had say gasket matched your oval intake to oval heads and someone asked you what swap you had, you would say "I have a full 3 liter" and then you could elaborate "I port matched the oval intake to the oval heads"

 

[Big Jim]

OK, call it anything you want, but with very little effort it could be clearer.

 

[fred22]

to be honest guys it does get confusing when 10 of yall start to say this is this and this is that, id like to do a 3.0 hybrid but ive yet to find very good info on this, its like the oil ports that need blocking, ive yet to find a picture of which one yall are talking about, for all i know yall might be blocking different ones to each other, if there was a pic of it with an arrow pointing to the ones needing blocking then that would help alot of people out with at least that question.


dont get me wrong, its nice to read the info, but with phrases like "you need to block the oil drains on the block" its like ok, but if there are 10 of them, then which ones do we need to block???

or headgaskets on them, this is going to sound stupid, but if u have a 3 liter block, with a 2.5 svt heads and cams, which headgasket do u use? The 3 liter or 2.5 one?

Other than that from what ive gathered, its just getting rid of everything else except pistons crank and block from the 3 liter and using your svt 2.5 heads, dmd pulley, cams, timing gear etc uim and lim and injectors, fuel rail etc and thats it?


then if i can find the block over here which are a bit rare, i would do this deffenitly with the help from yalls knowledge of course

 

[SoopaCooga]

^^^ Have you tried searching the archives? The "hybrid" install was more popular then, and several build-ups were well-documented with pictures.

 

[LilCe98]

Ok another question. Since i'm going with port matched swap will there be a need for secondaries?

 

[Pudmunkie]

Ok another question. Since i'm going with port matched swap will there be a need for secondaries?

Yes and no.

You might as well keep them as they help keep the car happy and not throwing secondary codes.

The benefits of the secondaries are debatable w/ the two ports dumping into a common port. With tuning you could easily delete them with little to no ill effect.

Long answer short? Keep em for now and you can delete them later if you want.

 

[LilCe98]

Yes and no.

You might as well keep them as they help keep the car happy and not throwing secondary codes.

The benefits of the secondaries are debatable w/ the two ports dumping into a common port. With tuning you could easily delete them with little to no ill effect.

Long answer short? Keep em for now and you can delete them later if you want.

So basically to avoid headaches I should just keep them. I was just wondering if there would be any performance benefits. I think Dan was planning to delete them. Where you running with or without them on you 3L.

 

[DanG]

I wasn't "planning" to delete them- I just wanted to give you the option to do so, since you'll have the torque of the 3L combined with the SVT cams' upper power. That being said, it means you'll need a custom tune (which you need anyway to maximize the engine's potential) that deletes the IMRC.


I basically pull the butterflies out of the LIM, yank the rods out, and weld over the holes to ensure there are no vacuum leaks.

I just sent updated pics to LilCe98- If he wants to post 'em, now's the time!

 

[Big Jim]

So basically to avoid headaches I should just keep them. I was just wondering if there would be any performance benefits. I think Dan was planning to delete them. Where you running with or without them on you 3L.

In theory, keeping the secondaries will improve low rpm throttle response and fuel economy but it may provide a bit of restriction at high rpm and cut a few horses.

Theory and actual sometimes doesn't match.

Have you been following the group buy interest check on an enlarged lower intake manifold the retains the secondaries? Possibly the best of both worlds.

 

[LilCe98]

I wasn't "planning" to delete them- I just wanted to give you the option to do so, since you'll have the torque of the 3L combined with the SVT cams' upper power. That being said, it means you'll need a custom tune (which you need anyway to maximize the engine's potential) that deletes the IMRC.


I basically pull the butterflies out of the LIM, yank the rods out, and weld over the holes to ensure there are no vacuum leaks.

I just sent updated pics to LilCe98- If he wants to post 'em, now's the time!

Yeah I didn't mean to make it sound as if you were doing it without my consent. You did ask and I said it doesn't matter so I figured you were just going to do it.

In theory, keeping the secondaries will improve low rpm throttle response and fuel economy but it may provide a bit of restriction at high rpm and cut a few horses.

Theory and actual sometimes doesn't match.

Have you been following the group buy interest check on an enlarged lower intake manifold the retains the secondaries? Possibly the best of both worlds.

Yeah, I've started following it when the thread first started and it seems like its gonna be out of my price range as of right now, but surely a mod for a later date.

 

[LilCe98]

Here are the updated pics I got from Dan. Dan is definitely the man when it comes to this platform and highly recommed him to anyone in the Cap City area doing a swap or anything else, plus he makes a mean cheeseburger :laugh: Anywho here are the pics

Heads from Blackcoog. One clean, one dirty:

Before cleaning:

After:

Found that the crossover tube in the back of the B1 head was snapped off... I yanked it out, we'll use the one from your 2.5L anyway...

Both heads cleaned and ready to go:

[/QUOTE]

 

[SoopaCooga]

Are those the ones that came with the motor or are those the heads you had purchased already ported?