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Please double check my 3.0 plans

P

PurpleMystique

Hard-core CEG'er
Joined
Nov 16, 2004
Messages
2,602
Location
Greater Des Moines Area
My 83,000 mile SVT engine spun a bearing, and since it's my DD I need to get it back on the road asap, and as cheaply as possible. If I had a shop, tools, and all the time in the world I'd love to take care of this myself, but those are luxuries that I don't have right now. The mechanic I'm talking with hasn't done a 3.0 swap before, but he does own a V6 Mystique, so he's at least familiar with the car and engine. The best deal he could find on an SVT 2.5 so far was one with 56,000 miles for $1900. I decided that was ludicrous and a 3.0 is the best way to go. I pointed him towards LKQ for a 3.0 and I'm now putting together a list of what needs to be done. Because I'm trying to minimize labor costs, I'd like to do a straight oval-port swap.

So I'm asking for a little help in putting together a complete list to give to a mechanic so that he can get my car running again.

So far I have (assuming an '01-'03 Taurus or Sable engine):

Needed from old engine:
-Throttle cable
-Throttle body
-Throttle cable bracket
-Oil pan
-Dipstick/tube
-Oil pickup (to match oil pan)
-Oil sensors/head coolant crossover tube sensors
-2.5 Timing cover
-Crank pully
-2.5 alternator bracket
-Valve covers
-Timing components (chains, guides, tensioners, etc.)
-Cams

New parts needed:
-Exhaust manifold gaskets (one time use) $6 each, need 2 (Any part number for this?)
-BCA part# 482041N Oil Seal, Front Timing Cover. $8
-2.5 Right Front Timing Cover Gasket F5RZ-6020-A $5
-2.5 Center Front Timing Cover Gasket F5RZ-6020-B $5
-2.5 Left Front Timing Cover Gasket F5RZ-6020-C $5
-2.5 Right Valve Cover Gasket F5RZ-6584-B $11
-2.5 Left Valve Cover Gasket F5RZ-6584-C $11
-2.5 Spark Plug Tube Seals ($2/ea., come in packs of 2)F5RZ-6C527-A
-Engine mount Long Bolts: W704693S309 $5.22/EA. LIST
-Engine mount Short Bolts: W704694S309 $3.53/EA. LIST

Customizations:
-Wire in (or tap) knock sensor
-Wire in oil sensor
-Extend wiring for EGR solenoid and TPS
-Vacuum lines (see this thread for pictures)
-Grind top passenger side engine mount to clear the heads. The newer Cougar engine mount (part #1S7Z3A732AA) requires less grinding, but the current one will work with a little extra time.
-EGR tube must be fitted via brass compression fitting (see previous thread)
-Fuel rail brazing/welding/replacement (see this for replacement, or this for general soldering/welding bs.)
-Trim alternator bracket mounting points off of block (try to install 2.5 alternator bracket to see what needs to be removed
-Trim extra ATX mounting point tab - it blocks SVT Oil cooler lines
-Remove crank pilot bearing (not needed now that it's not ATX) - either cut it flush with a sawsall or cutoff wheel, or cut some notches in the sides of it and use a small gear puller
-Modify throttle cable bracket to fit new angle
-Replace crankshaft pulley bolt as it's a TTY (torque to yield)
-When putting SVT cams on the 3.0, use all of the 2.5 timing components, such as the timing cover, chains, guides, tensioners, and the bolts

After this is all done a tune would be a great idea, I've heard. Warmonger can do that via an XCal2 through the mail, right?


That's what I've put together so far. I'd really like to give him a thorough list so that it's as painless for him as I can make it. Also, would it be worth the extra cost in labor required to swap in the SVT cams/timing components?
 
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That looks really good, you obviously did you homework. PM me your e-mail address. I have a how-to and parts list with numbers in excel that I made after my build that addresses the little quirks of the swap.

It should answer all of the 'customizations' questions.

Also, if you go this route you will be able to re-coup a good deal of your costs by selling the svt UIM, LIM and CAMS.
 
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I did think of reselling those parts, but I also thought about adding them to my engine myself when I get the time. My biggest priority right now is to get the car back on the road for as little money and labor as possible, which is why I'm doing the direct swap.
 
Nice write! I just replaced my engine , because it happened the same!
But i found another SVT for cheap...

Well for my next project i am putting a 3L Taurus/Sable,because i have everything u wrote from the old engine,which is already parted out!
 
I'm still hoping for some of the 3.0 heavyweights to confirm that my list is complete...I'm hoping to email this to the mechanic tomorrow so he knows what he's getting into.
 
Okay, three questions I'm hoping to get answered:
1. Is it worth the extra labor involved to swap in the SVT cams and timing components?
2. What's my best option as far as fuel rail? Should I trust the mechanic to braze it or should I buy the premade one?
3. What should I do for an intake? My SVT had the stock air box, will that fit or should I pick up an SVT intake off of eBay and a heatshield if Pudmunkie has an extra?
 
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PurpleMystique said:
Okay, three questions I'm hoping to get answered:
1. Is it worth the extra labor involved to swap in the SVT cams and timing components?
2. What's my best option as far as fuel rail? Should I trust the mechanic to braze it or should I buy the premade one?
3. What should I do for an intake? My SVT had the stock air box, will that fit or should I pick up an SVT intake off of eBay and a heatshield if Pudmunkie has an extra?
Click to expand...


1) YES! i still regret selling mine off.
2) PM BlackCoog or email 3Lduratec. Chris has done dozens of swaps/builds/installs (including mine)
3) Use your UIM/LIM, TB,and Intake setup.

Youll be happier if you stick with your 2.5 upper end!
buy the Intake plate if needed. its well worth it!
 
Well that's the thing. I'd love to go the hybrid route, but every time the mechanic turns another bolt that's another dollar out of my pocket, and I neeeeed to do this as cheap as possible. If nothing else I'd like to get it running reliably now and then this spring after I move I can upgrade to my own components (UIM, LIM, maybe heads) when I have the tools and facilities to do this kind of work.
 
PurpleMystique said:
Okay, three questions I'm hoping to get answered:
1. Is it worth the extra labor involved to swap in the SVT cams and timing components?
2. What's my best option as far as fuel rail? Should I trust the mechanic to braze it or should I buy the premade one?
3. What should I do for an intake? My SVT had the stock air box, will that fit or should I pick up an SVT intake off of eBay and a heatshield if Pudmunkie has an extra?
Click to expand...

am no way a 3l heavyweight by the furthest imagination. But one problem with rushing through a 3l swap is that u don't get to do things right the first time.
1) SVT cams would be really nice, but it only adds to labor costs... sumthin u said u wanna cut down. By the way, that's still being debated in the group buy and 3L forum.
2) If the mech is pretty good, brazing the fuel line shouldnt be a problem for him. If still not sure, joey n tom sell a part that u can buy, plug, and play.
3) keep ur svt intake for sure. A pud heatshield is good.
 
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I'd say on a quick glance you forgot valve covers that you need off your old engine. You only actually have one timing cover. I don't know why you'd need bolts for the engine mount if you are just going to grind down your current one. Also you should replace the Crankshaft pulley bolt as it is supposed to be a TTY bolt. You said it has 83k miles, so are you comfortable re-using your old clutch/flywheel? Or would you like to replace it? Now is the time if you think so. Otherwise you can save some cash there as well. You're correct on the pickup, you should use whatever pickup matches the oil pan that you are using. You'll probably want a new oil pan gasket as well.

I'm not too familiar with the straight swap (never done one) but I believe you need to also modify your throttle cable bracket to make it work at the new angle. You need to remove the pilot bearing because the 3L was mated to all auto trannies, out MTX doesn't use a pilot bearing but its in the way so you need to grind it down.

The SVT cams will get you a few more ponies up top and a higher powerband but if you're looking for a cheap route you can skip them and turn them around for a couple hundred bucks to make up your 3L cost.

Warmonger can get you an XCal with tune through mail otherwise I believe he also does just a chip (not positive on that though) which would cost less.

I'd have to really think about it to come up with more but that's what I got just for a quick glance ;)

HTH
 
Thanks a bunch for the info! I'd love to replace my clutch and flywheel now, but I'm not sure that's in the budget, same goes with headers. It all depends on when my student loan finally comes through (this is an education-related expense, right?). If that does end up coming in time, I might just pick up a new LIM and go hybrid with a new clutch, flywheel, and some headers. I don't want to regret not having stuff done now, but I can only do so much on a limited budget.


Any opinions about the intake/filter?
 
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PurpleMystique said:
I don't want to regret not having stuff done now, but I can only do so much on a limited budget.
Click to expand...

I don't know what people are doing with the air intake setups, but I do know that the LIM swap would be easy enough with the engine in the car and fully assembled. Headers and cams are another story :) Cams being tougher than headers of course. So out of everything you've listed the one thing i REALLY WOULDN'T want to do later, is try to swap cams with the engine in the car. You have to decide how important they are to you and what you have money for ;)
 
1. Is it worth the extra labor involved to swap in the SVT cams and timing components?
2. What's my best option as far as fuel rail? Should I trust the mechanic to braze it or should I buy the premade one?
3. What should I do for an intake? My SVT had the stock air box, will that fit or should I pick up an SVT intake off of eBay and a heatshield if Pudmunkie has an extra?
Click to expand...

1. Yes... Well it depends what kind of car you want. 3 liter cams develop a healthier tq curve low / mid range. Great for tooling around town. SVT cams (like I have) scream up top and beg for you to wind the motor out! Its your decision, just make sure you know what you want out of the car before hand. FWIW the mexican was angry that my car kept pulling up top :)

2. I dont know that I would trust the mechanic to braze the fuelrail unless he has significant experience with such things. Joey and Tom may be close to releasing their fuel rail kit which would help in this area.

3. You are doing a full 3 liter swap correct? Im sorry if I missed the specifics, I just skimmed. If you have the 3 liter intakes then you can either use your stock SVT stuff and it will be oriented different, or you can pick up some form of aftermarket maf adaptor and a K&N. You wont (unfortunately ;)) be able to use one of my airboxes because it is designed only for standard 2.5 UIM oriented cars.

Dont forget you will need tuning to take care of the lack of secondaries and things when using oval port intakes!

Good luck
 
JoeM said:
1) YES! i still regret selling mine off.
2) PM BlackCoog or email 3Lduratec. Chris has done dozens of swaps/builds/installs (including mine)
3) Use your UIM/LIM, TB,and Intake setup.

Youll be happier if you stick with your 2.5 upper end!
buy the Intake plate if needed. its well worth it!
Click to expand...

I believe if you use the UIM/LIM, TB, and Intake setup from your SVT you don't need to have the fuel line brazed or anything since I believe it retains your stock fuel injectors and components. Someone correct me if I'm wrong or verify. Come on heavyweight 3L guys chime in anytime.
 
dairdevyld said:
I believe if you use the UIM/LIM, TB, and Intake setup from your SVT you don't need to have the fuel line brazed or anything since I believe it retains your stock fuel injectors and components. Someone correct me if I'm wrong or verify. Come on heavyweight 3L guys chime in anytime.
Click to expand...

My research has said that you're correct. The downside to this is that you have to do some machining/grinding to use the SVT LIM with the 3.0L heads. It's possible to use the 2.5 heads, but you have to fill in coolant/oil passages, and you end up with ridiculous compression (11.something:1 I think).
 
PurpleMystique said:
Okay, three questions I'm hoping to get answered:
1. Is it worth the extra labor involved to swap in the SVT cams and timing components?
2. What's my best option as far as fuel rail? Should I trust the mechanic to braze it or should I buy the premade one?
3. What should I do for an intake? My SVT had the stock air box, will that fit or should I pick up an SVT intake off of eBay and a heatshield if Pudmunkie has an extra?
Click to expand...


1.) If you're still trying to get this car up and running for as little as possible, then no. Drop the new motor in and deal with upgrades later.

2.) Unless you're doing a straight 3.0 swap, then you don't need to braze the fuel rail or EGR tube. Drop in the 3.0, use the 2.5 UIM/LIM and the rest of the SVT parts.

3.) If you do a straight swap, the airbox won't fit. However, the 3.0 stuff will but will need some persuasion to fit in.
 
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