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Zetec Cams

KennyT772 said:
IIRC 17# Injectors limit to 125hp crank..You have a good motor. Lucky. If you are making 122 at the wheels then you have to be in the 140 range at the crank.
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that comment makes no sense at all. why in the world would the injectors be limited to 125 hp at the crank when that is what the engine is rated for? that and striker just said he didn't change the fuel injectors to get his 140 hp crank.

and again for the numbers you guys are throwing around. my SE made 140 whp stock. no way with the mods are you getting to SVT levels ...
 
If I could find any of the posts I would show you, but the new search just makes me look like a dumbass. I remember reading stock injectors limit you to around 125hp, which is where you max out the flow. It was held as one of the reasons to either lightly mod a zetec or go all out, as you need injectors and a tune to make decent improvements.

Going off of what I have read in the past two years, would lead me to believe drivetrain loss is somewhere between 10 to 20hp. So in order to get over 115 to the wheels you should have had to change out injectors and tune it. I have also read that injectors + a premium tune with more aggressive spark timing can get you a significant boost in power.

I could very well be wrong, but that is what I remember reading. Take it or leave it.
 
I don't recall ever reading anything like that. and if striker made 122 whp with stock injectors then they can't be rated to 125 crank hp. something just doesn't add, and I don't know where the little tid bit of information that we need lays ...
 
I was just about to say that ^^.

The only way the OP will be in SVT range is if he does some aggressive mods. Some focus guys have 160 whp all motor.. and I mean all motor: Aggressive cams, lots of headwork etc. So there is a way to get to SVT range, but it'll take a lot of work and money.
 
zorrex said:
Maybe you read 125 WHEEL hp?
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I don't know. look at the duratec, its has 17# injectors also. it has ~140 whp stock. can't see the zetec 17# injectors running out that quickly, even if it was whp. and the fpr will only work if the injector can supply the fuel.
 
BrApple said:
I don't know. look at the duratec, its has 17# injectors also. it has ~140 whp stock. can't see the zetec 17# injectors running out that quickly, even if it was whp. and the fpr will only work if the injector can supply the fuel.
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Oh I know, I 100% completely agree with you. They'll be good for probably around 180whp in a 3L, so I can imagine 150whp in a Zetec is absolutely doable. I'm just saying that maybe he read that somewhere.
 
BrApple said:
I don't know. look at the duratec, its has 17# injectors also. it has ~140 whp stock. can't see the zetec 17# injectors running out that quickly, even if it was whp. and the fpr will only work if the injector can supply the fuel.
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The Duratec has six 17# injectors. If you believe that the Zetec's four 17# injectors max it out at 125whp, that means each 17# injector supports 31.25hp, so six 17# injectors would support about 187hp. Obviously, it's not that simple, but you get the picture.

95_Mystique said:
damn, thats like slightly modded SVT range.
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Bah hahaha. Not even close. An SVT with KKM and catback will put down 180hp/155tq.

KennyT772 said:
Not quite. Stock injectors max out at 125hp worth of fuel, you would need bigger injectors and a tune to get into SVT territory. You should be a little faster than a stock V6 due to weight. However you will probably put 115 to the wheels.
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How much lighter is the Zetec than the Duratec? I thought the iron block made the two similar, but since V6 cars are usually better-optioned, they typically weight more.
 
oh man, where to start. :laugh:

on the weight issue, the Zetec weighs roughly 70lbs less than the Duratec. so while its not much, every pound counts, its also fully capable of making more power than is usable on this platform so why not use the lighter engine (especially when its smaller size makes it that much easier to work on)

as for injectors, I conveniently still have my old stock injectors. they are grey Denso injectors, part number 968F-AC which come back as 17.3 lbs/hr at 37PSI. now since i had the FPR i was running them at 45PSI, which means they flow more like 19lb injectors. 17lb injectors are good for ~136BHP, while 19lb injectors are good for ~152BHP and 24lb injectors are good for ~192BHP.

The MTX-75 trans has about a 15% loss. so with an adjustable FPR, you can keep the stock injectors up to about 125-130WHP. that means that my numbers where almost maxed for the stock injectors.

now, if you are going to get cams, get cam gears as well. cam timing/overlap is everything on these engines (a turbo Focus made an extra 40HP up top just by adjusting the cam gears on stock cams), and since you will need a tune anyways for the cams and gears, you should put in some 24lb injectors, just to be safe.
 
alright, just to clear this up, i'm talking about 1/4 mile when i say in SVT range. If Striker2 was running mid 16's with 122whp, i could imagine that ~150whp would be mid to high 15's.

Also, by what you're saying, Striker2, is that by running the FPR and 19lb injectors, i could have them flow similar to 21lb injectors if i have the pressure turned up?

Also, with the Zetec weighing in at ~70lbs less, that is a big help with 1/4 mile times. I also dont have a back seat, rear carpet, door panels, spare tire, jack, etc. Its just bare bones in the back half of the car, so i'm sure that's going to help my times. The only thing i have to worry about is traction.
 
keep in mind, that most 19lb injectors are rated at 19lbs at 43PSI, so you would have to up it to 55psi to get 21lbs out them. 55psi is above the stock spec for fuel pressure range. at that pressure your pump starts to flow less so its possible to run out of fuel then too. IMO, you would be better off finding 21 or 24 lb injectors (check my edit of my last post for more info).
 
So I'm not crazy, good. I didn't take into account the FPR. Also Drivetrain isn't 15% scaled, it is usually 15% of stock power. so 15% * 125 crank hp = 18.75 hp. It should be less loss than that given it is a manual and transaxle. Either way, 140 Crank horse should be doable with the aforementioned mods.
 
ok, so 24lb injectors, cams, cam gears, FPR, and i should be set... with the Ford Racing Cams it says they recommend new tappets. zxtuner offeres lightweight 1 piece tappets for $14 each. They're sold in incriments of .001 and come in sizes from .675-.695. how would i know what size to get, and would they really be necessary?
 
KennyT772 said:
Also Drivetrain isn't 15% scaled, it is usually 15% of stock power. so 15% * 125 crank hp = 18.75 hp. It should be less loss than that given it is a manual and transaxle.
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except the same trans bolted to a 200HP engine nets only about 170WHP or a 30HP loss, which is conveniently 15% of 200. the drivetrain is going to "eat" pretty close to the same percentage, no matter how much HP you make.

Manual transaxles generally have a 10-15% loss, while manual transmissions (including the rear end) are usually closer to 15-20%. now Automatic transaxles and transmissions are both typically in the 20-25% loss range.
 
oh, another thing, is it harder to tune a 95 because it is NOT OBD-II? what kind of computer programing can they do? or is it strictly adjusting timing and fuel pressure?
 
95_Mystique said:
Even so, with the cams, thinner head gasket, adjustible cam gears, adjustible fuel pressure regulator, UDP, intake and exhaust, the car should make some pretty decent power. Possibly put me in SVT territory when it comes to 1/4 mile times.
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i doubt it. now cams with an itb setup would put you up around 200hp n/a
 
i doubt you'd be in the svt 1/4 mile range with just those mods. if you did cams with a ITB (individual throttle body) setup that would put you at around 200hp n/a. You would definitely be in the svt territory then
 
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