#49's new powerplant has arrived, let the build begin

[frinesi2]

A quick addition on gear coatings - I've heard awesome things about MicroBlue. It seems to work pretty well and have sound science behind it. I'm going to try it on the custom gearbox for our Baja SAE car as soon as we get the time and money.

http://www.microblueracing.com

Just another option to consider.

 

[CSVT#49]

A quick addition on gear coatings - I've heard awesome things about MicroBlue. It seems to work pretty well and have sound science behind it. I'm going to try it on the custom gearbox for our Baja SAE car as soon as we get the time and money.

http://www.microblueracing.com

Just another option to consider.

Some interesting stuff. Kind of wish I would have started a Baja car in college too, but I went the Formula SAE route instead. I managed to raise $5,700 and got the car built for that too. Not to shabby considering the team I had put together placed 50th out of 140 teams and being the first time out for our college.

 

[cetroutt]

IIRC you have previously stated that the Noble crowd are using the squirters with the stock oil pump. i just don't see the benefits of the dry sump and the modification that it will take over a stand alone system for the turbo, which from the setups i've personally seen and from what i've seen from the two links you posted could easily be tucked away in the trunk. it's been noted that you aren't cutting any corners but the dry sump just seems one more thing that could go wrong on a already heavily modified engine. if something should happen to dry sump goes you risk loosing the turbo and the engine, however if the turbo system goes you risk loosing the turbo. i dunno just a thought i had.

 

[Pudmunkie]

Nevermind

 

[CSVT#49]

IIRC you have previously stated that the Noble crowd are using the squirters with the stock oil pump. i just don't see the benefits of the dry sump and the modification that it will take over a stand alone system for the turbo, which from the setups i've personally seen and from what i've seen from the two links you posted could easily be tucked away in the trunk. it's been noted that you aren't cutting any corners but the dry sump just seems one more thing that could go wrong on a already heavily modified engine. if something should happen to dry sump goes you risk loosing the turbo and the engine, however if the turbo system goes you risk loosing the turbo. i dunno just a thought i had.

The majority of the Noble crowd is not at the power levels that I will be at though.

However that said I was talking with the guy that has the 970hp Noble and he informed me that he is still running the OEM oil pump, with a track pan, and oil cooler. He did mention that the only oiling issues he has seen is during prolonged high G left hand turns, which of course is related to lack of oil returning to the sump, not the oil pump. So I feel a little more comfortable using a new OEM pump. Although I may add additional baffling as well as a larger sump to my oil pan (most Nobles are running the 'track' pan).

 

[RFcsvt]

So based on the high hp Nobles that see track time and the other info posted recently, it sounds like an accusump could be an affordable safe guard in addition to the larger sump and pan modifications. I know it was mentioned the accusump is for short losses of pressure, but it sounds to me like you'll be pretty safe and shouldn't experience a huge pressure loss. The pump isn't a problem, the dry sump is super expensive, I guess to me the accusump sounds good.

This stuff is interesting, I didn't know much about the oiling issues prior to reading this.

 

[morbid]

Are you considering a ball bearing turbo? Those technically require less oil than normal journaled ones... so oiling would be less of a concern.

 

[CSVT#49]

Are you considering a ball bearing turbo? Those technically require less oil than normal journaled ones... so oiling would be less of a concern.

My turbo is the Garrett upgrade option for NPG. The box is buried in the unfinished bedroom in our basement along with the entire interior, misc. exterior parts, engine, fuel system components, wire harnesses, axles, etc. So I can't get you the part number off of it, but I know it is not a ball bearing turbo. However I feel it should be able to support my power goals. lol... so to answer your question no I'm not. I had thought about it, but I have already invested in what I have and I really don't feel like trying to sell it. Only thing I am still debating on the turbo side of things is water-air or air-air intercooler (main concern is the cooling package thickness and fan capabilities there) and upgrading my waste gate as the NPG supplied one isn't something I wish to use. Most likely going to try and purchase a Tial F38 38mm waste gate. As for the intercooler I am leaning towards a water-air system as I have some fairly nice components to get the job done and then I won't have to worry about the added thickness on the core and what the cooling capacity would be with a large intercooler in front of the OEM dual fans.

Here is the Tial waste gate I am considering...

 

[bensenvill]

well if your concerned on space for the intercooler or fan potential, I know the mumm (or capaldi?? dont remember) race cougar cut out that center support bar that runs midway along the radiator and welded up something that ran more or less along the bumper support... its been years since I've seen photos of it but its a big reason I've slowly been relocating all the wiring that ran along that support.

are you going to continue running the stock fans? I got the old svt radiator out of the mumm brother's car and I can tell by some wear lines they had a huge single fan strapped to the middle of the radiator, never was able to find out exactly what fan they were running. Oh and I'll throw this out there, I use to use those radiator fan motors for my battlebots. Those are tough little motors that you can push some serious amperage through if you wanted (30v @ 40amp IIRC was about their upper safe limit wit some minor modificiatons).... I always found it was weird that those motors were wound to work bidirectonally, rewound one to be unidirectional and was able to get over 1 horse out of it.

 

[CSVT#49]

well if your concerned on space for the intercooler or fan potential, I know the mumm (or capaldi?? dont remember) race cougar cut out that center support bar that runs midway along the radiator and welded up something that ran more or less along the bumper support... its been years since I've seen photos of it but its a big reason I've slowly been relocating all the wiring that ran along that support.

are you going to continue running the stock fans? I got the old svt radiator out of the mumm brother's car and I can tell by some wear lines they had a huge single fan strapped to the middle of the radiator, never was able to find out exactly what fan they were running. Oh and I'll throw this out there, I use to use those radiator fan motors for my battlebots. Those are tough little motors that you can push some serious amperage through if you wanted (30v @ 40amp IIRC was about their upper safe limit wit some minor modificiatons).... I always found it was weird that those motors were wound to work bidirectonally, rewound one to be unidirectional and was able to get over 1 horse out of it.

Very interesting information. It's not necessarily the space requirement. It's more along the lines of the added heat generated by the intercooler. That heat is then drawn from the intercooler by the fans and then pulled through the cores of the A/C condenser and radiator. This will certainly cause a rise in heat into the condenser and radiator, which will cause them to perform poorly. I would need to crank up the fan speed to pull more air to cool the cores quickly. The Noble setup has all of these components spaced out from one another. The intercooler is above and behind the engine in the rear of the car with the radiator and condenser mounted at the front. I have a plan to potentially mount a water-air intercooler where the battery used to be then run a air-water intercooler in the trunk with it's own small electric fan. I will have two water pumps, one pulling water from the supply tank and pushing it through the water-air intercooler for the engine, then another pump will be mounted outside of the supply tank pulling water from the water-air intercooler at the front of the car through the air-water intercooler in the rear pumping it back into the supply tank. This should help keep the water cooler and thus provide colder induction air for the engine. However I plan to test the water temp with only one pump and then again with two to help identify any gains to determine if two pumps provide any performance improvement. If anything it will allow me to run a larger air-water intercooler.

Then of course there is the alternative plan which is to mount a air-air intercooler in the engine bay where the battery used to be and strategically place a louver in the hood above it. I would then install a small electric fan that would pull air through a duct from the louver through the air-air intercooler. I actually like this idea better as it is less complicated, but I fear the area is to small to provide mounting for an air-air intercooler with sufficient surface area to cool the charged induction air.

 

[Klasky24]

It seems like the majority of your problems have been and will be from a simple lack of space. The thing is, our engine bays arent roomy enough for what they already have in them, adding anything else just makes it ridiculous lol

 

[svttour]

I will be running a noble m400 intercooler on my car. Not sure if you have look into those or not but I got lucky and found one on ebay for 50 shipped with about 1200 miles on it. I already converted the one dual side to single exit so all I need to do now is mount it.

 

[SHOgoFast]

When I ran a water to air setup on mine, that water would get hot soooo fast. For sport I tossed two bags of ice in the resevoir for a dyno run, two pulls and the ice was gone and I had 90*+ water.

The challenge is going to be coming up with a solid way to bring the water temps back down.

Edit: this was using the small gt28 turbo, running 7-8 psi.

 

[striker2]

When I ran a water to air setup on mine, that water would get hot soooo fast. For sport I tossed two bags of ice in the resevoir for a dyno run, two pulls and the ice was gone and I had 90*+ water.

The challenge is going to be coming up with a solid way to bring the water temps back down.

Edit: this was using the small gt28 turbo, running 7-8 psi.

this^

water-air setups are great for 1 or 2 runs but the water pretty quickly gets hot and doesnt do much after that point. so, for a drag car they work well as you dont need to be moving for them to cool the charge and you can ice it down between runs. for a street car though a good air-air setup is the better choice. a FMIC will only hurt the coolant temps if you dont have any ducting/shrouding to force all the air that comes in the bumper through the intercooler and radiator.

 

[gorman]

I always found it was weird that those motors were wound to work bidirectonally, rewound one to be unidirectional and was able to get over 1 horse out of it.

WOW; you could run the fans backward when in slow moving or stationary traffic. It would then suck air from around the engine and from under the car and blow hot air out of the engine bay through the radiator, reducing heat soak .... G.

 

[bensenvill]

WOW; you could run the fans backward when in slow moving or stationary traffic. It would then suck air from around the engine and from under the car and blow hot air out of the engine bay through the radiator, reducing heat soak .... G.

yup! pretty cool, just reverse the polarity of the wiring. I have no idea if that would have any ill effect on the fan blades or the shrowd assembly.

 

[gorman]

for someone who made Battlebots, i don't think running a fan backwards is going to be much of a hurdle... G.

 

[CSVT#49]

When I ran a water to air setup on mine, that water would get hot soooo fast. For sport I tossed two bags of ice in the resevoir for a dyno run, two pulls and the ice was gone and I had 90*+ water.

The challenge is going to be coming up with a solid way to bring the water temps back down.

Edit: this was using the small gt28 turbo, running 7-8 psi.

Did you run a air-water cooler for the water returning to the supply tank though? I guess I'd be surprised if you did and still had high water temps. If you have a properly sized air-water cooler for the water that is cooling down your intake air then I would think you could maintain reasonable charge air temps.

 

[striker2]

Did you run a air-water cooler for the water returning to the supply tank though? I guess I'd be surprised if you did and still had high water temps. If you have a properly sized air-water cooler for the water that is cooling down your intake air then I would think you could maintain reasonable charge air temps.

the water will always go to a little above ambient, even with a proper radiator for it (unless you add ice but that only lasts for a little bit). then the charge temps will never be any cooler than a little above whatever the water temp is.

with a properly sized front mount air-air intercooler you can see charge temps at only a little above ambient, basically what the water temp would be. that said, the water setup will cool the charge even when not moving, so like on a launch or on a dyno.

 

[CSVT#49]

Tore down both my transmission and the 02 Cougar trans I bought and I have to say Torco MTF fluid is where it is at. My trans still looked brand new from the last time I rebuilt it back in 2005. Now the trans is being sent off to TH for the build up.

The trans I'll be selling once I get my Cougar one back...