jaged
Veteran CEG'er
ive got time this sunday, ill get that stuff pulled off the car
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Vortech build
- Thread starter Beans
- Start date
Beans
Addicted CEG'er
Thanks for checking... That might be a interesting hose to run back under there, good thing i got so much room in this engine bay!
Yeah the valve cover breather, the '04 style only has the front to work with as the pcv is in the rear. I'll likely just tap some of my intake tubing and get the correct size hose barbs. Wish i had a welder :*\
I have a catch can hooked up to the pcv side, i was getting TERRIBLE blow by with the 2.5L pcv system. The front cover might benefit from one, but its not a priority at the moment. I'll keep an eye on it once its running.
Take your time jaged, im not putting this together just yet.
Yeah the valve cover breather, the '04 style only has the front to work with as the pcv is in the rear. I'll likely just tap some of my intake tubing and get the correct size hose barbs. Wish i had a welder :*\
I have a catch can hooked up to the pcv side, i was getting TERRIBLE blow by with the 2.5L pcv system. The front cover might benefit from one, but its not a priority at the moment. I'll keep an eye on it once its running.
Take your time jaged, im not putting this together just yet.
CSVT_0611
Poster boy for Hawaiian Tropic so I can look white
Well, I tried to help. LOL, we were just talking about different things. Oh well. If anything else, it got you thinking. But, I will gladly help out with the install.
Beans
Addicted CEG'er
I need a suggestion for my map sensor for dataloging. It uses 5V, i can get a cheap voltage converter and get 12v if need be.
I'm trying to think a clean way to install it... I deleted my IMRC, cruise control. I turned the IMRC in the tune. Is there a switched 5v or 12v on one of those sources that i can still use? Or maybe something else in the engine bay that won't compromise something important, sensors ect.
Also i ordered and have the 4" cobra head, i THINK i can make it work with some trimming! It seems the outer ring to the 3.5" inlet is 4"... I think i will clamp it to that instead of using a reducer.. Good idea? Or get the reducer?
I'm trying to think a clean way to install it... I deleted my IMRC, cruise control. I turned the IMRC in the tune. Is there a switched 5v or 12v on one of those sources that i can still use? Or maybe something else in the engine bay that won't compromise something important, sensors ect.
Also i ordered and have the 4" cobra head, i THINK i can make it work with some trimming! It seems the outer ring to the 3.5" inlet is 4"... I think i will clamp it to that instead of using a reducer.. Good idea? Or get the reducer?
jaged
Veteran CEG'er
insert "thats what she said" comment. because that thing is huge, "some" trimming is an understatement
i had time to do it now, and it will give me time to get it back together. stuff is off the car, just drying out now
i had time to do it now, and it will give me time to get it back together. stuff is off the car, just drying out now
Beans
Addicted CEG'er
Vortech build
Lol!
I hope it fits... ( thats what she said ) i think it may if i measured right.
Lol!
I hope it fits... ( thats what she said ) i think it may if i measured right.
99Mystique ATX
Hard-core CEG'er
Package has arrived from Mr. Beans! Pics more info to come as soon as I get a chance to open it up and see what we're working with here... 
Beans
Addicted CEG'er
Beans sad.
jaged
Veteran CEG'er
oh noes
had an idea about the intake coupler. know anyone with a 3d printer?
had an idea about the intake coupler. know anyone with a 3d printer?
Beans
Addicted CEG'er
Vortech build
Our mutual friend Stuart does.
Bad news: 99mystique did a inspection of everything and condition is worse than i had thought. New impeller is likely needed and a lot of jackshaft machining. Amongst other things. lots more money. Guess i'll have to can the new wheel and tire set.
I'll take my 225's in extra crispy flavor.
Our mutual friend Stuart does.
Bad news: 99mystique did a inspection of everything and condition is worse than i had thought. New impeller is likely needed and a lot of jackshaft machining. Amongst other things.
lots more money. Guess i'll have to can the new wheel and tire set.I'll take my 225's in extra crispy flavor.
99Mystique ATX
Hard-core CEG'er
I think the impeller is the worst news. The rest of it was somewhat expected though. We should know for sure what the deal is once I get a chance to fully tear this thing down and see what we're working with. In short here's what I found on my initial inspection:
* Impeller has slightly bent fins. This is the biggest issue thus far.
* Bearings in head unit are rough, need to tear down to see what's going on here. Probably just in need of rebuild which was in the works anyways.
* Jackshaft looks like it was run without the coupling and the 3 pins are damaged on both the jackshaft and S/C sides. These need to be pressed out and replaced.
* Jackshaft and coupler adapter were rubbing inside one of the 'blocks' and will need to be separated and inspected. I suspect we can just get these in a lathe and clean up the damage without much effort. Should be a quick an easy fix.
* Jackshaft housing and closest mating block have some damage. I may have this turned down and then elongate the inner block to make up for the removed material.
* Impeller has slightly bent fins. This is the biggest issue thus far.
* Bearings in head unit are rough, need to tear down to see what's going on here. Probably just in need of rebuild which was in the works anyways.
* Jackshaft looks like it was run without the coupling and the 3 pins are damaged on both the jackshaft and S/C sides. These need to be pressed out and replaced.
* Jackshaft and coupler adapter were rubbing inside one of the 'blocks' and will need to be separated and inspected. I suspect we can just get these in a lathe and clean up the damage without much effort. Should be a quick an easy fix.
* Jackshaft housing and closest mating block have some damage. I may have this turned down and then elongate the inner block to make up for the removed material.
99Mystique ATX
Hard-core CEG'er
Small update and some info in case anyone else needs this.
The drive pins (that mate the S/C to the jackshaft via the coupler) are standard metal dowel pins. My local hardware store stocks them, 1/4" diameter by 1 1/4" length. The current pins measure .250" and coupler openings measure .251-.252".
The alignment dowels are called "tension pins" in the parts bin and are 5/16" diameter by 1" length. These are to hold the spacer block and block closest to the S/C during installation. I don't expect these to be a wear item but Beans kit was missing them.
Based on what I've seen thus far, the damages are from installation error (not by Beans) and not really the fault of the kit. The failures I saw on my S/C kit were partially due to quality of the kit and design and partially due to not rebuilding it often enough. My kit was installed with 15k on the car, spline drive replaced with pin drive after it failed at ~35k and then it was run till I got the car with ~93k. So, almost 60k miles with ZERO maintenance and the main failures I saw were leaking seals in the head unit and the jackshaft bearings/damaged shaft. Really not bad at all. Although, I question how hard the hamchuck I bought my car from drove the car as ~20k out of the spline drive is pretty impressive...
The drive pins (that mate the S/C to the jackshaft via the coupler) are standard metal dowel pins. My local hardware store stocks them, 1/4" diameter by 1 1/4" length. The current pins measure .250" and coupler openings measure .251-.252".
The alignment dowels are called "tension pins" in the parts bin and are 5/16" diameter by 1" length. These are to hold the spacer block and block closest to the S/C during installation. I don't expect these to be a wear item but Beans kit was missing them.
Based on what I've seen thus far, the damages are from installation error (not by Beans) and not really the fault of the kit. The failures I saw on my S/C kit were partially due to quality of the kit and design and partially due to not rebuilding it often enough. My kit was installed with 15k on the car, spline drive replaced with pin drive after it failed at ~35k and then it was run till I got the car with ~93k. So, almost 60k miles with ZERO maintenance and the main failures I saw were leaking seals in the head unit and the jackshaft bearings/damaged shaft. Really not bad at all. Although, I question how hard the hamchuck I bought my car from drove the car as ~20k out of the spline drive is pretty impressive...
What would you suggest is an adequate maintenance regime and schedule ? ...thanks ...G.
jaged
Veteran CEG'er
i think between our threads on neco and all the info in here we need to do a comprehensive vortech rebuild sticky when this is all said and done
CSVT_0611
Poster boy for Hawaiian Tropic so I can look white
What he said^^
99Mystique ATX
Hard-core CEG'er
Well, my kit with the pin drive was run for about 60k. At that point the seals in the head unit were toast and the bearings still seemed to be just fine. The bearings in the jackshaft were toast though. Without having more data and seeing more than my kit and Beans's kit first-hand it's hard to really know for sure what numbers are safe to go with.
Based on what I've seen I'd say probably 15-20k for the jackshaft bearings and 30k for the head unit. But, that number could range depending on how hard you drive the car and many other factors. If you're wide-open red light to red light don't expect it to last forever.
Probably not a bad idea at all. The only thing is that each unit needs to be looked at individually to make sure there are no other failures. For example, Bean's kit had a failure of sorts on the S/C end of the jackshaft and mine had a bearing fail on the pulley end. Both need repaired but will need different work done. The head units are probably just a disassemble, replace and rebuild process unless there is more damage. In Beans's kit we have to deal with the impeller having bent fins which was more than likely caused by the original installer or perhaps during shipping.
Maybe the head unit bearings last better because they have an oil supply.
Might be worth looking in to upgrading the shaft bearings. It may be that the vibration from the failing shaft bearings leads to coupler failure. Is it the bearings or poor engineering on the shaft design ?
I read a thread that said that clicking on Eaton chargers can be because of this piece wearing out. Not sure if this part wearing out puts strain on the bearings or the the other way round... slack in the coupler definately won't do alot for the pins..... what do you think ? ...G.
99Mystique ATX
Hard-core CEG'er
The head unit bearings last better because they are properly rated for their use. The head units are actually a fairly well designed unit IMO. Think about it this way, most Vortech head units are very similar in design to one-another with the main differences being sizing (ie takes a larger volume of air to build 8 psi on a 4.6L V8 than on a 2.5L V6), application (does the head unit need to spin CW or CCW?), etc. Most of the head units are basically standardized with different adapters and brackets for each application which is good because it keeps cost to manufacture and overall inventory down. I think the overall design of the head unit is good (it's definitely one of the most efficient S/C's on the market) but there is probably some room for improvement in the rest of the kit.
Bearing life is a function of a number of factors but primarily lubrication, load and rpm. Of course there are other factors like misalignment, installation error, etc. The bearings Vortech used are just a standard off the shelf bearing that any good hardware store will stock. I suspect if you could go to a better quality bearing (ideally you'd have an oil supply to the bearing but this wouldn't be easy) you could extend the life quite a bit. The downfall is availability, cost and potentially a redesign of the jackshaft and housing. I just removed the bearings from Beans's unit last night and they were ok but had puked some grease. I don't think his unit had a ton of miles on it either. I wouldn't say it's poorly engineered. Sure they could have had a better design but it all comes down to cost, ease of installation and reliability.
I'm not sure about coupler life and am not familiar enough with the Eaton setup to really comment on it. What I can say is that my unit had over 60k on the coupler and it was still in good shape when I pulled the unit apart. I reused it and never gave it a second thought. The coupler really shouldn't have a whole lot of wear in this setup. If you did have wear in the coupler you'd put excess stress on the jackshaft bearings as well as the supercharger. It just wouldn't be a good situation. But, if the bearings were going in either the head unit (not likely) or the jackshaft (likely) you could cause excess wear and tear. How long it last comes down to the installer's ability, how hard the car is driven and how long it's driven before disassembling it and inspecting componenets for wear.
Bearing life is a function of a number of factors but primarily lubrication, load and rpm. Of course there are other factors like misalignment, installation error, etc. The bearings Vortech used are just a standard off the shelf bearing that any good hardware store will stock. I suspect if you could go to a better quality bearing (ideally you'd have an oil supply to the bearing but this wouldn't be easy) you could extend the life quite a bit. The downfall is availability, cost and potentially a redesign of the jackshaft and housing. I just removed the bearings from Beans's unit last night and they were ok but had puked some grease. I don't think his unit had a ton of miles on it either. I wouldn't say it's poorly engineered. Sure they could have had a better design but it all comes down to cost, ease of installation and reliability.
I'm not sure about coupler life and am not familiar enough with the Eaton setup to really comment on it. What I can say is that my unit had over 60k on the coupler and it was still in good shape when I pulled the unit apart. I reused it and never gave it a second thought. The coupler really shouldn't have a whole lot of wear in this setup. If you did have wear in the coupler you'd put excess stress on the jackshaft bearings as well as the supercharger. It just wouldn't be a good situation. But, if the bearings were going in either the head unit (not likely) or the jackshaft (likely) you could cause excess wear and tear. How long it last comes down to the installer's ability, how hard the car is driven and how long it's driven before disassembling it and inspecting componenets for wear.
can i ask please;
What puller type and size did you use to remove the 3 pin hub on the input side of the head unit ?
Also; when you pressed out the impeller shaft, did you just squash the impeller against the body of the head unit or is there a special technique to support it while pressing the shaft ?
One last thing, what is the method for re-installing those two parts ? .. thanks ...G.